This past year I’ve had more contact with undergrad and new grad student writing than I’ve had in a long time. These are bright kids, but they apparently find it much too hard to present their material in an organized, complete and yet succinct fashion. I would pit what I’ve seen, except that I find it too depressing to go all fire-and-brimstone at the moment.
It’s not a new problem, I know. I had classmates years ago who were also not great writers, especially science and business majors. (I actually had someone tell me once that they weren’t concerned about how their students wrote about a topic, as long as the necessary information was there.) It’s just that the issue is right under my nose right now, and it seems worse to me than before. Next thing, I’m sure, is that I’ll be telling the kids to get off my lawn… but I digress.
Let me say up front that I don’t expect students to be the next Hemingway. Just writing something that’s coherent, that flows properly, would be an achievement… but I haven’t seen it yet.
So, I’d like to open the floor to you all and ask you to tell me:
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school?
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school?
If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter?
What major were you in college, and how long ago was that?
No. I was told many times that I did it wrong, but never how to do it right. My grammar and spelling were good (we did get a lot of grammar), but my organization could have been better and I didn’t know how to “pretify” (which some of my teachers expected from female students).
Yes. Lab reports and reports on bibliographic searches.
**1. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school? **
No. I was always in the “advanced” classes, which focused on creative writing, and zero mechanics, grammar, spelling, etc. The class I had which inadvertently taught me how to write a good persuasive or research paper was debate class, an elective, my junior year. In debate, I learned how to make a point, support it with two or more bits of evidence, make my next point, support that. I learned to write introduction-body-conclusion, or as my teacher said over and over, “Tell 'em what you’re going to tell 'em, tell 'em, and tell 'em what you told 'em.” Debate was when I finally “got” how an outline helps you organize your thoughts BEFORE you write. When I had to turn in an outline before that, I’d write the paper and then make an outline of that paper.
So while I had a good intuitive grasp and high skill level to begin with, the whole formal teaching never happened directly. Indirectly, I saw how to take the debate skills we were explicitly taught and apply them to writing.
**2. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school? **
No. It was assumed we got it in high school.
3. If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter?
4. What major were you in college, and how long ago was that?
I have an A.A. from 1994 or 5, I forget which. While it wasn’t a “major”, I chose most of my electives in psychology. I’m going back to school for nursing if I get accepted.
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school?
Yes. I don’t quite remember if I did one in middle school or not but I do remember ebing part of the science fair. My project was on heart disease, and I did set it up very nicely.
Then in high school, I had three teachers in 9th, 10th, and 11th grades who taught me how to make book reports and set up a report properly.
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school?
In college, I took Freshman Comp, and yes again…it was much more interesting I found. They expected some knowledge but also taught some of the basics.
If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter?
High school: My government teacher did, since we sent plenty of letters off to senators, etc. Also history as we had to write reports there. I can’t remember anyone else. College: Some teachers would correct it on the presumption you already knew.
What major were you in college, and how long ago was that?
1. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school? Not in any other subject apart from the sciences where we had to write up experiments and those were done in a particular fashion. They started with a labelled diagram of equipment then the text was clearly split into “method” (what we did), “results” (what happened when we did it) and “conclusion” (what did it all mean?).
2. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school? No, but having learned the basics of how to write up our science experiments, I naturally applied the same process to other papers and reports.
3. If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter? Having realised late on in the game that we hadn’t been taught how to do this properly, our English teacher decided to show us how it was done. At that point it was still very basic and wasn’t much more than being told every essay/report/paper needed an introduction, argument and conclusion.
4. What major were you in college, and how long ago was that? Arts, mostly. The most recent stuff I’ve been doing is social sciences which I will be finishing in April of this year.
My course is largely distance learning and my tutor’s feedback from my papers so far has been that he enjoys reading them and finds them well constructed, they flow well in a logical order. Perhaps it’s because I write the conclusion first and then have to make sure the main body of the paper ensures I get from my introduction to the correct finishing place!
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school?
**
Yes…maybe in middle school, but definitely in High School. However, I was in the “college-bound” group - the smart kid classes. There were sort of 3 levels to all of our available courses (“just pass already”, “you’re pretty normal” and “we’re going to make a college student out of you”) and I was in the “highest” one.
**2. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school? **
I don’t recall. Seems like we were…
3. If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter?
I remember in my Creative Writing class we all got to read everyone else’s stories and such. I remember being mortified at the grammar and spelling of my classmates. One woman wrote a whole story about a person addicted to “heroine.” I brought it up with my professor - and he looked at me like I was a huge jerk.
But I do recall our science & social studies teachers in middle school making sure we wrote properly, yes. 4. What major were you in college, and how long ago was that?
I was a journalism major - so everything I had to write revolved around proper spelling and grammar. I graduated in 2001.
2> Yes - we had a Freshman writing requirement that specifically addressed writing.
3>In elementary school where we didn’t have “classes,” in English class in middle/high school. Also in Social Studies and History classes in High School. Yes, grammer and spelling was alway. In college, I had it specifically in “Writing for Liberal Arts majors” and “Rhetoric.”
First time - 20 years ago, major, Film Studies. Second time - currently - major Accounting - have written papers, but passed out of needing to take a writing course (one is required if you are coming from high school).
Uh…yeah…Pretty much everywhere:
In high school I learned how to write reports in science classes. Once, some “smart” girl told me my half-written report on the back of a piece of notepaper sucked so we got into a battle of who could write the best report.
In engineering school and business school you pretty much had to write good, structured reports. And of course, you have to do them all the time in consulting.
I’m always shocked by how kids these days can’t write a report for shit. I get these one long paragraph stream of consciousness crapfests all the time.
**1. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school? ** Yes, I studied at an International Baccalaureate high school where much emphasis was placed on organizing thoughts and constructing well written essays, reports, theses, etc. Multiple written reports were required in all my IB classes even math and art, but especially in English and history. I also had an IB course titled ‘Theory of Knowledge’ which entailed writing multiple essays each week.
2. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school? In college, I was further taught on how to organize technical reports with which I did not have much experience prior to college. I already knew well how to write a well-composed formal literary thesis paper before college. As a college freshman, I perceived that I was well ahead
of most other freshman in terms of writing and grammar skills due to my IB high school education, but I was not much ahead of average engineering freshmen in terms of calculus and chemistry. It’s no coincidence that my highest percentage 'A’s in college were in my two English classes.
3. If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter? Many other subjects’ instructors corrected for proper usage of the English language.
4. What major were you in college, and how long ago was that? I majored in materials engineering from start to finish in college and then graduated in May 2006.
Nowadays, I have a job where I daily write multiple technical reports, all of which are reviewed and scrutinized by others. I have found thorough training in writing formal reports has been noticeably beneficial to me.
Bad grammar and poor spelling really irk me especially when I notice these phenomena in formal writing. Any educated adult who speaks English as a first language should fucking know their own language well enough to avoid egregious errors and reasonably organize some thoughts when writing formally.
Yes, many times, not that it really sank in until college. We were taught strict essay format, and thesis statements and all that.
We had an inescapable Freshmen comp class that I didn’t take until 4th year. I sort of winged it, though, with loose outlines and lame organization until grad school when it really mattered a lot and I became acutely aware of thesis statement construction and phrasing of individual sentences and use of individual words. In my PhD program I had a rhetorician for a principal adviser (seriously. 16th-century rhetoric) who was a stickler for everything organizational-- our meetings about whatever I was writing would be largely playing with Venn diagrams and Ramist charts on a blackboard and quibbling about the difference between ‘imitate’ and ‘emulate’. Now I have become that anal retentive college prof.
All my classes, but I went to a small lib arts school. We wrote a lot.
Really really off-topic, but can’t resist, sorry. WhyNot, I’m so glad to hear you are going back to school for nursing!! You are so good with medical related threads and I think you’d be a great nurse. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you get in.
**1. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school? ** Yes. The first specific time I can remember learning about this was in the fourth grade. Then we spent more time learning how to organize a paper every year.
**2. Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school? **
Yes. We covered basic writing in writing class and scientific writing in the introductory science courses.
3. If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter?
Some teachers looked at organization and grammar as well as content, but a lot of them did not.
4. What major were you in college, and how long ago was that?
Biotech/Genetic Engineering. I graduated in 04.
I seem to remember doing a report on whales in 3rd or 4th grade. I was required to use two references, cite the references, and spelling and sentence structure counted. I even drew a whale for the cover. I aced it!
This was all very basic stuff, just so we could get the hang of it as we got more demanding coursework.
As a child, I was taught how to write at a private school. The public system did not do a very good job at teaching children how to write.
I later became a technical writer, taught technical writing at university to students in a rhetoric and technical writing program, and taught report writing at universities and colleges. Quite apart from technical and report writing, I have taught English literature, law, kayaking and skiing.
Many universities have remedial level writing classes in which frosh can get up to speed. If a prof has a student who is being dragged down by a lack of writing skills, a referral to a remedial class may make the difference between passing and failing.
Some universities require students in certain programs to take technical or report writing credit courses. Sometimes students grumble about having to take a course that they do not perceive to be related to their major, however, as long as the profs in their majors keep flunking them due to poor writing skills, they tend to apply themselves to the writing courses and eventually learn to write well.
For the really hard nuts, I would work with the profs from their other courses. We’d have the student submit one of their papers to me prior to submitting it to the prof who had assigned the task. I would sit down with the student and offer suggestions on how to cleanup the writing, and then ask the student to re-write the report. The student would then submit both versions of the report to the prof who had assigned the task. Inevitably, the report that the student had revised to clean up the writing would receive at least a letter grade higher than the non-revised report. From then on, such students would apply themselves in my writing course, knowing that whether they liked it or not, working on good writing would significantly improve their grades in their other courses. One of the highlights of this approach came years later, when as a law student, I came across an economics professor who had been one of my first report writing students at another university – he said that my course had made the difference in getting the grades he required, both through the mechanics of the writing itself, and through the learning of formal logic (which was part of my writing course).
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school? In middle school, we started learning about expository essays (the 5 paragraph method); from then on, it was building upon that model until we reached multi-page papers. The emphasis was to form an organized argument with a structure that could be outlined if necessary. Before the expository essay lessons, we were refining our learning about outlining information (like book chapters) in fourth and fifth grade.
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school? There wasn’t a need, and I had already been exempted from the two classes that would have gone over writing formats.
If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter?
**Yes. I had spelling and vocabulary tests from first grade through eighth grade, in addition to punctuation and syntax lessons in our grammar lessons. It wasn’t until sixth grade that English class branched out into studies of literature in addition to grammar and writing lessons. I also had it pretty heavily enforced that good spelling, grammar, and pronunciation made you at least appear like an intelligent person at home. (However, it was also emphasized that an unintelligent statement, although clearly written or succinctly said, still made one look like an idiot.) **
What major were you in college, and how long ago was that? Anthropology major. I graduated in Spring 2006.
Yes, and more than once. I can remember being taught to skim encyclopedia articles for info in the third grade. The next year, we had a great English teacher who us checking out library books on a topic, using the TOC and index to ferret out info, writing up an outline and notecards, and then finally the finished paper (maybe three pages hand-written on loose-leaf). At the time, it seemed like War & Peace … but I’m glad we went through that early on.
I also had excellent writing instruction in high school … perhaps I was just lucky to be in school at a time when written assignments were being emphasized by the state school system. In my sophomore year of high school, I can remember every class having an essay component to the tests … even geometry.
Not in college … but in my senior year of high school, I took an AP English course for college credit that taught us how to access, interpret, and create original literary criticism. I then took an excellent reference-skills class as a freshman, and then another lit-crit class as a college sophomore. On top of that, I was a journalism major … so I got the crash course in newspaper-style writing.
Looking back on it … I got a lot of exposure and practice to writing. Undoubtedly why it is a strength of mine today.
1, 2. I was taught basic three and five-paragraph essay writing, citing with bibliography and footnotes, and organization (introduction, conclusion) in High School. I don’t think I took such a course in college.
Other HS teachers corrected spelling besides the English teacher, but it was dependant upon the teacher.
I was a business major in college. Econ, specifically.
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report (book report, science report, whatever) in grade school/high school?
No - not that I can remember. However, my son is taking AP English classes in High School - he recently had to do a ten page research report - and his English Teacher expects proper MLA cites, etc. on all papers. We now share the MLA Book.
Were you ever explicitly taught how to organize and write a report in college or grad school?
The first time I found out how to do a proper report (along with cites, etc.) was just a couple years ago - it was college. Keep in mind, I was in high school a very LONG time ago so things were different.
If yes to either 1 or 2, were you taught how only in English class, or did other subject teachers also make an effort to correct grammar, spelling, organization, etc. in addition to the subject matter?
I learned it in two different classes - English and a pro-seminar in critical skills. I haven’t taken much else - except like Geography and stuff - and I do ok when I have those other classes - they don’t mark much up.
What major were you in college, and how long ago was that?
