(sorry for misspelling your name Sauron
Jarbabyj- I can totally understand that!
Spooje- In that post, yes. IRL, no. These people bring me my food when I’m too lazy to cook. Just like my dog loves me for bringing her food to her, I love servers 
What I don’t love is people in general with attitudes like Vibrotronica. I’ll fight against whatever they stand for just on basic principles.
Sam
Okay, wring. I see where you’re coming from. I honestly can’t reconcile your statements in this paragraph:
because it would seem to me the first and last sentences are mutually exclusive, based on what krisolov has said in this thread. However, I’m sufficiently dense enough that it’s entirely possible I’m just not getting it.
It still doesn’t excuse the waitress for her behavior, though. I think most people, in polite society, tend to give strangers the benefit of the doubt when an error has been made. The waitress did not do that; in fact, she went out of her way to antagonize and embarrass the patrons of the restaurant. Not only is this impolite and unprofessional, it’s also terrible for business – krisolov has indicated no one in the lunch party will go back to the restaurant. However, had she simply accepted the lack of a tip, krisolov and his/her co-workers would likely have returned to that restaurant – and if it truly was a mistake that no tip was left last time, they would have left a tip on their next visit (assuming service was adequate). So she got her tip this time, but she cost herself untold tips in the future. Stupid.
I’ve got no problem with a waitperson asking “Was the service unsatisfactory?” while I’m in the restaurant. Chasing me down outside the restaurant goes beyond the scope of polite interaction.
(Don’t worry about misspelling my name. My wife can’t pronounce it properly. I keep saying “It’s either ‘Sah-ron’ or ‘Sow-ron.’ Your choice. It’s not difficult.” However, she keeps pronouncing it “ig-no-ram-us.”
Boo Boo Foo : Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.
Plus simplest reason I can see is, you have 5 people chatting away not concentrating. Boss who has the money is asked for say … £63.50 (made up number) hands over $100 bill. Is given $36.50 change and still talking to colleagues walks away.
Nobody is intentionally “stiffing” anybody. Nobody is stealing.
Bill has been paid in full as requested.
As Boo Boo Foo mentioned it is the skewed US tax structure that messes up the whole system.
If you are going to tax somebody on an assumed tip stick the tip on the bill and it won’t get missed off.
Sauron (I won’t call you what your wife does ) - the reconcilliation comes when one has a “I kinda don’t want to know” attitude - sorta like my father probably would have said I was a virgin until the day I got married, though he would have had ample reason to believe I wasn’t. when it’s your boss who’s stiffing the server, I can understand how some one wouldn’t want to call attention to that “Hey bosslady - we all gave ya 48 bucks, and you dropped a fifty for a fifty tab, where’s your part plus tip, and don’t I have an evaluation coming???”
I’d like to see fewer people entering these establishments with the notion that they’re some kind of royalty that deserves treatment above and beyond the call. If the server, who’s not there because they think you’re just swell, sets you at a clean table and makes several trips to get your drinks and your food for you so that you don’t have to and can instead visit trouble free with your friends, then you have a moral obligation to compensate them fairly for it. Should they provide extroardinary service then you can at your disgression reward them in a more generous manner.
But I personally find the notion that “I’ll tip if I feel like it” to be shameful. Unless the waitperson is rude or takes liberties with the cleanliness of your food or serving area you have a (not legal but) moral obligation to compensate them fairly.
It’s beyond me how anybody could ever forget to tip but should that happen, just make a point of returning in the near future to make things right. They’ll appreciate it and you’ll feel better about yourself.
And it’s just a guess but I’d imagine wring’s frustration with krisolov arose in part not because of the failure to tip but because he chastised the waitress for standing up for herself. Maybe saying “The money’s not right” could have been phrased better as “What was wrong and how can I serve you better next time?” but I too was a bit offended by the tone of the OP… that his group forgot to tip and the waitperson was deserving of ridicule for calling them on it.
When you walk in that door and sit down at an establishment, there is an implied obligation on both sides, period.
Gawd, I’m a man and you can suck my fat cock. You are beneath contempt.
Fair enough. Let me turn the tables a bit, though.
Some fundamentalists believe they have a moral obligation – are, in fact, commanded – to witness to people about Christ. They will hang out in airports, bus stations, malls, etc. and talk to anyone who passes by about Jesus. This offends many people, who are not operating under the same moral standard. In fact, I believe that these people actually turn more people away from Christ by their actions than they attract.
No one is saying the party shouldn’t have tipped. What I (and others) are saying is that chasing someone down to tell them “there’s a problem with the bill” when, in fact, you’re just hacked that you didn’t get a tip, is wrong. In the long run, the waitress has caused around five people to avoid that restaurant. That’s a terrible way to run a business, and a terrible way to maximize your income if you depend on tips.
Because I think you’re a moron, and your attitude and opinion on the matter sucks I’m beneath contempt? Your “fat cock”? I’m sure that’s a typo and you meant your “fast cock”.
I still think your feelings are hurt because you’ve chased people down for tips in the past…
Now kindly fuck off.
Sam
Sauron, I’d imagine that you and I and 98% of the respondants here would under similar circumstances treat any waitstaff equally well, both in our demeanor and with our generosity. And I agree that the waitress in question did not handle the situation in a way that endeared either she or her place of employment to the patrons.
I’ve been stiffed before and just let it go, secure in the knowledge I did a good job and decent patrons would soon make up for the inadequacies of a few jerks. I too don’t condone her method but do by all means understand her frustration.
Please forgive me if this was addressed earlier and I forgot, but it was the boss who happened to be collecting the bill. Frankly, if I was with a group of co-workers and my boss and the boss happened to forget the tip (forgot, perhaps?), there’s no way I would bring it up. I don’t mean to put some people underneath others, but I’d much rather risk annoying the server at the restaurant due to not tipping rather than risk annoying my boss by mentioning that s/he forgot to leave a tip.
lel, perhaps it’s because I have a rather relaxed relationship with my boss that I have the luxury of thinking the inverse. I’d tell my boss in a heartbeat if he failed to leave a tip.
I know everybody doesn’t have it that way, but like the untipped waitress, I think anyone could find a way to handle the situation without embarrassing anyone.
For example, the OP (assuming s/he noticed right away that a tip was not left, which doesn’t seem to be the case, but work with me) could have just sort of glanced casually around the table and said (to nobody in particular) something like, "Did we leave enough tip? I could cough up a couple more bucks if necessary . . . "
Agreed on all points, lieu.
Y’know I went back and talked to the boss today about this, and also a few of the people who were there. Here are the facts I can confirm in addition to what I’ve laid out:
There were exactly 5 of us. Everyone I asked kicked in meal +20% tip. Boss paid with a $100 bill, the change from which boss put in her bag, forgetting to leave the tip. I could not see this as I was on the opposite end of the table. We walked out, about halfway thru station when the waitress, check in hand, ran up to us yelling. After ironing out the “there’s a problem with the bill” vs. we didn’t leave a tip, she got her rightful 20% tip. I have not seen the boss make this mistake before or since (go figure), and know her to be a generous person in general. I am highly inclined to say this was a mistake on her part. My vitriol at the server is not because we skipped out on the tip and she called us on it, but because she a) wasn’t honest when she finally chased us down and b) made enough of a public scene that she embarrassed us as patrons and herself as a representative of the restaurant.
While I agree that in most places that would be fine (well, most places I’ve worked, anyway), and from what krisolov has mentioned so far I have no reason to conclude that it wouldn’t have been different in that situation, I still have had some bosses with whom I wouldn’t even indirectly mention anything.
Of course, this is all hypothetical anyway and now moot…
** I am not doubting this account, but it’s a “mistake” that’s difficult to understand. You pay the tab with cash, and pocket the entire change, it’s difficult to see where the person doesn’t ‘know’ that they never left a tip. I don’t doubt your assertion of her general honesty etc, it’s just that’s a really stupid mistake to make (I can understand dropping a bunch of bills on the table and miscounting a whole lot better.
I also don’t really blame you (at this point) for not noting this, though again, it’s difficult to understand how no one noticed this. I’d understand if y’all were unwilling to bring it to her attention, however. I don’t know, for me, it’s just second nature to, whenever and whoever I’m with, if cash is used to make sure that the tip got done (I’m not pushy enough to demand to see the credit card receipt, but it’s much more difficult to ‘forget’ the tip if using a CC)
I understood that your anger was 'cause of the embarrasment quotient. I still go for the whole “you screwed up, some one calls you on it and you get pissed at them for doing so” as being, well, not ok. She didn’t boil your rabbit, key your car, make obscene phone calls. She pubically called attention to your screw up. Yes, it would have been nicer (better) for her to have done so ina less public, more polite, more subserveant manner. but it would have been much nicer all around if: a. your boss /group hadn’t screwed up in the first place, and b. given that screw up, when the server is chasing you down, why on earth isn’t it coming right back at the boss “holy shit, I forgot to put a tip on the table”???
There’s a way of avoiding this problem. When I go out with friends and we don’t have separate checks, I put my tip on the table instead of handing it to the person who’s paying (not that my friends would stiff a server anyway). That way, the tip money can’t “accidentally” get mixed up with the food money. If I’m with someone who doesn’t leave an adequate tip, I’ll pitch in a little bit extra to make up for it.
I used to hang around with people who would order drinks and dessert and lots of extras and then skimp on the check, but I never considered them my friends anyway.
ME
I’ve been a waitress, and a bartender, both while in school and at various “interim” positions.
I cannot IMAGINE doing this, nor could I imagine any of the restaurants where I worked condoning this sort of behaviour.
Yes, tips SHOULD be left for decent to stellar service. But (last time I looked) it WAS still voluntary for the customer.
As a former waitress, I think her behaviour was really over the top.
Caveat: I am a really good tipper. My policy is “If you don’t have enough to tip, you don’t have enough to eat out.”
That said, if any waitperson gave me ANY kind of guff about a tip I left, I would yell at that person as if I though yelling would extend my life. I think it’s THAT far over the top to do that.
It’s very bad manners to stiff for the tip. It’s far worse for the staff to complain about it, IMO.
I haven’t waitressed for a long time, but has the law regarding taxing of tips changed?
IIRC, back when I was a waitress, you had a choice, you could either track your tips and report them yourself, or allow your employer to do it based on your sales reciepts.
When I was waitressing, the amount you were taxed on tips was only 8% of your sales, not the 10-20% that is customary to leave a waitress
So, by the law when I was a waitress if the bill was $50 then her"earnings" for that table would be $4.00 taxable income (50*.08=4).
If the good ole IRS taxed that 4 bucks at the 30 some odd percent that they do MY paychecks that’d be $1.20 (or 4*.3=1.2, anyone, feel MORE than free to correct my math, I’m not that great at it).
So basically this waitress chased them down the hallway for a little over a buck.
Even on my worst tipped days I wouldn’t have stooped to this. I’m still astonished at her actions.