Where did all the happy (and for that matter, GOOD) music go???

The BBQ Pit
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Rich: 'nothin silly about it. You just need to bone up on your American History.

Disillusionment is markedly different that having a different political agenda (the cause of the whig, tory, black horse, democratic, republican, libertarian, etc. parties) and basic disagreement over economics and social policy. Disillusionment means to be stripped of your ideals and made bitter. Prior to the late 60s and early 70s (Vietnam, Watergate, etc.) the nation had a certain innocence and still held ideals: even the young people. Compare the reverence the older generations held for FDR, Truman & Kennedy with the reverence held for Nixon, Johnson & Carter. This time period, for the first time since the Civil War, millions of Americans started to feel threatened by the government and the ideal of Democracy: the whole vision the founding fathers worked so hard to solidify. I meet very few people who can honestly say or feel they hold the slightist bit of political efficacy. This is disillusionment, my friend, and it it getting worse.

Drugs have been around, you say! Well I can’t argue with that! What I can say is that synthetic, available, recreational drugs have NOT been around for centuries. Big difference when it comes to pervasiveness in American culture.

Anarchy, or getting rid of any centralized government, really hit it’s violent stride in the late 70s. Just because all western nations have governments, doesn’t mean that the anarchist movement isn’t stronger than ever.

Free love used to be able to be cured (for the most part) with a bit of the old antibiotics, now you run the risk of AIDS. There are nations on this earth where the rate of AIDS is 25% or more of the general population.

I’d like to ramble on, but I’ve got band practice now - the guys are showing up any minute. What I’m saying is that these factors most definitely are contributing to the changing attitudes in music and art. If you disagree with me, it is you who are just plain goofy. :stuck_out_tongue:

Hell is Other People.

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I’d say you need to bone up on your grammar, or at least the way you phrase your statements.

You can call it innocence, I call it naivete. Regardless, using the loss of one’s “innocence” as an excuse to be bitter all the time is just as unhealthy as denying the fact that there’s anything to be bitter about in the first place (like those in the earlier generations you mentioned).

Since I consider alcohol a drug, I’d have to disagree with the first point. As far as pervasiveness goes, I’ll concede that one, but so what? I’ve heard that Louis Armstrong smoked a doobie every day of his adult life, and he didn’t turn out music similar to any Mope Rock on the FM dial today. Or is your argument that crystal meth is entirely responsible for dark music?

This is where that phrasing problem comes into play. In your original post, if you strip your statement down to the part that pertains to anarchy, you’re left with, “The 60s & 70s brought us anarchy.” Since we’ve continually had a government in this country since before the '60s, and anarchy is defined as “absence of government,” this is simply incorrect. If you’d like to state that the '60s and '70s brought us the anarchy movement, fine, but this is substantially different (and arguable). I’m curious as to how many Mope Rockers out there belong to an anarchist organization, since you seem to believe that this plays such an important role in the genre.

Yes, and I still fail to see how this giving way to responsible behaviour is sufficient reason for today’s current glut of Mope Rock. Are you arguing that the availability of a cure for the consequences of irresponsible behaviour somehow negates the irresponsible nature of the behaviour, and that the absence of a cure is the inspiration for a genre of music? It would seem from your original statement that antibiotics held the Mope Rock stampede at bay, and AIDS was the last straw. You’re not really arguing that, are you?

I’ll play Goofy if you’ll play Pluto, that way I’ll be the only one who gets to talk. :smiley:

Pit arguments aside, Sake, I have to say that I think we’d end up agreeing more than disagreeing on the reasons behind what might be considered “excessive” amounts of negative music at this point in history. I think it would be a long, long discussion, though, and I don’t think I’m up for it. Hard to avoid a chance to argue in the pit, though, so thanks.

Rich

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No problem, thanks for the bit 'O debate.

Hell is Other People.

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“Anarchist organization”…I nominate that for oxymoron of the millenium.

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I don’t know where all of the ‘good’ or ‘happy’ music went, but I suspect that rap had a lot to do with it’s vanishing. Rap hit the scene and promptly everyone was scowling, acting ‘bad,’ trying to look tough and singing about slapping ‘bitches’ and ‘hoes’, shooting ‘da man’ and the ‘joys’ of gang life.

I was sitting and watching a review of the 70s with Disco, along with some of the 60s music and some of the 80s when it dawned on me that 90% of those groups not only dressed colorfully but actually LOOKED LIKE they were having fun. They smiled, they looked happy, they looked good. The music was bright and cheerful instead of monotonous and grim.

I remember Black groups coming on looking fantastic in their costumes and hair styles – like the Supremes – and White groups doing the same and all looked like they enjoyed their trade. No one walked on stage looking like they bought their cloths from a second hand store, scowling, looking bad, shooting gang signs, and very, very rarely did their songs have to be censored because of language or context.

Suddenly, Disco was gone and the 80s music began and people still looked happy. Then rap made its appearance and things went down hill right after that. Now I notice that rap is starting to change, the Black women singers leading the way. They’re pulling rap out of the negative, nasty mess that it was and is and have begun to dress in pretty clothing, sing lighter tunes, look like they don’t belong to street rats and are actually starting to smile.

The facial grimacing with the distorted lips – I guess showing how tough they are, though it looks mostly like they have indigestion – along with the twisting hand and arm positioning which makes them look spastic but is supposed to indicate that they’re ‘down with the Homeys and the gangs’ is starting to fade out.

I would like to see the groups go back to those great costumes of the 60s and 70s and early 80s and look like they’re happy on stage and enjoying themselves.

Styles of music, I noticed, last only about 8 to 10 years, depending upon how long it takes for kids – who buy most of it – to get through school and several years of college. Then it starts to change.

I can’t wait for rap to be phased out entirely. I never have liked it. Disco folded because, after a while, all of the rhythms sounded the same – some enterprising fellow combined something like 8 or so songs with similar beats into a record where they all ran one into the other. I’m surprised that rap has not yet been hit by the same effect because it all also has basically the same, monotonous beat.

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Holy crap, there’s so much wrong here I don’t know where to begin.

Promptly? Hardly. Rap, in its infancy in the mid-70s with the Sugarhill Gang, Afriika Bambaata and others, was primarily concerned with black pride, city life and parties. In fact, much early rap was emphatically ANTI-gang, ANTI-drug and ANTI-violence. (Anyone remember “The Message” or “White Lines.”) So, if by “promptly” you mean “since around 1988-89 or so,” you might have something.

The MC5? Iggy Pop? KISS? Hell, remember the furor over album covers for groups like the Ohio Players? The Stones? These guys made CAREERS out of looking bad. Come on . . .

[quoteSuddenly, Disco was gone and the 80s music began and people still looked happy.[/quote]

Why are people under this impression that disco ever went away? Go to any dance club and tell me what they’re playing (Hint: The answer is “disco.”) It just calls itself “dance music” now.

Well, I really don’t think so, since rap has been around close to 30 years now. And, in any case, you’re mistaking a causal chain here.

Yeah, I always did hate that Mick Jagger and that Joe Cocker.

You’ll be old and grey, I’m afraid. After country, it’s probably the most popular genre in the U.S.A.

Disco never folded. Please, let’s all disabuse ourselves of this notion.

As opposed to good-old four-to-the-bar rock and roll, I suppose?

“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather

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And a beer for Phil.

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Wasn’t his name George Thoroughgood? Oh no, that’s right, he only used three songs. . .

Rich
“There’s the G major. . . There’s the D major. . . Wait for it. . . Wait for it. . . There! There it is, the A major!”

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Not to mention that Death, Doom & Black metal has been dark, negative, and often more violent than rap since the early 70s.

And Phil, you’re right about dance music still being around of course, but I think when people say “disco” they mean that certain signature sound from 70’s dance music. Sort of like when most people talk about classical music they are referring to the 1700s & 1800 and really don’t mean that classical music is no longer being composed and performed. It’s just the age when it was at the height of it’s creativity, innovation and popularity. Today’s dance music is a pale glimmer of the 70’s (I consider techno/trance/trip-hop to be substantially different than disco BTW).

Hell is Other People.