Where did MMR antivaxxers go?

This has become political even if it shouldn’t be and I hope it stays in GQ FQ, I want the data, if it exists. Move if you think it’s best to do this preemptively, or play nice.

The politicization is generally framed as liberal/Democrat = tends to be in favor of COVID vaccines, conservative/Republican = tends to be against, either mandates or personally getting the jab itself. It’s not as cut and dry as that, but we’re going on tendencies and the data bears that out.

But prior to 2021 there was still an antivax movement focused on MMR vaccines, others like TDap to a lesser extent. There was some conservative/Christian opposition, but especially there was a strong antivax movement among affluent people who identify as some form of liberal, such as attendees in Waldorf schools, and there doesn’t seem to be much correlation with politics and MMR vaccination/exemption rate. For example in 2019 the most vaccinated was Mississippi(!) and lowest Colorado. Note that a confound is Mississippi and 4 other states do not allow exemptions. But you see blue states with lower rates and red states with higher rates.

I assume many of these people are still around, so: if they maintain blanket antivax, did their political outlook change? Are they for one vaccine and against another? All I can find is that German Waldorfs have resistance to the COVID vaccine (so non-US data welcome), and national Waldorf schools have made noncommittal statements that they are not against vaccines but don’t advise families to go one way or another.

The most prominent anti-MMR antivaxxer (at least to my impression, as one who does not follow this foolishness) was Robert F Kennedy Jr, who has been promoting the false vaccine/autism connection for decades.

He is similarly opposed to COVID-19 vaccines, and is the author of a book The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health, which should give you an idea of his views on the coronavirus. (Note: I have not read it, nor do I plan to.)

So at least in this one case, it was a smooth pivot from anti-MMR to anti-mRNA.

Since we’re talking about this under Factual Questions, a link to start -

Impacts of the COVID-19 Pandemic on the Uptake of Other Vaccines

Google searches on anti-vaccine terms have increased during the COVID-19 pandemic, with peaks precisely following the WHO’s various announcements (e.g., public health emergency of international concern and mask-wearing in public areas). Opposing some beliefs, the burden of COVID-19 has not been dissuading anti-vaccine searches (23).

The COVID-19 pandemic has also changed parents’ intentions to vaccinate their children. In the group of previously hesitant parents about vaccines, 50.9% were still reluctant during the pandemic, 40.0% of them consider that vaccines are necessary, and 9.1% were uncertain (24). Goldman et al. (25) reported that parents’ intentions to vaccinate their children against influenza increased by 15.8% during the COVID-19 pandemic compared to the previous year (25).

Which would seem to indicate a measurable increase in plans for children’s vaccinations, which is a hopeful spot, but not nearly as high as I would have liked.

For a less scholarly perspective, but one that is more human, here’s the take from WebMD -

Strong feelings around vaccination are nothing new. Claims that link the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism and opposition to measles vaccination that triggered outbreaks in California are recent examples.

People who were against smallpox immunizations, for example, ran advertisements, wrote to newspapers, and formed anti-vaccine organizations, as seen in news clippings from the 1860s to the 1950s.

In other words, although the furor over vaccines feels like a modern experience, disagreements throughout history reveal many similarities.

IE - the more things change, the more they stay the same. They’ve always been with us, people for whom liberty is defined as the ability to say “no.”

I don’t think that the MMR anti-vaxxers were ever all that numerous. They couldn’t be, because the vast majority of schools require all students to have MMR vaccines, so parents who didn’t vaccinate had to either homeschool, or (possibly, depending on state laws) seek out special anti-vax private schools. They just seemed more numerous, because they’re good at making noise in the media, and wherever they clumped (i.e., anywhere that allows and has anti-vax private schools), there were measles outbreaks that made the news.

That small number of MMR anti-vaxxers are still around, and presumably most of them are also covid anti-vaxxers. But now there’s a whole slew of other covid anti-vaxxers on top of them, because opposition to covid vaccination has become a tribal identification thing.

or claim religious exemption.

@ParallelLines
Thanks, that’s perfect.

@Chronos
It’s not that they’re a big percent of the population, it’s that they clustered, reducing herd immunity and increasing chances of outbreaks.
One example: 29% vaccination rate. About 10% of kids re in private school.

@kanicbird
Or medical. I know someone who legitimately has had issues with vaccines because of an egg allergy. It just means you need to ask/get the data sheet.

Aren’t there non-egg formulations available, too?

But a handful of students who can’t get the vaccine for medical reasons aren’t a problem, if they’re surrounded by classmates who are vaccinated.

From a quick google, the egg thing is less common now. But the point is you have to ask, not that all vaccines are off limits.

These students aren’t surrounded by vaccinated classmates, but yes herd immunity works well even if a few don’t have vaccines.

Hardcore anti-MMR/antivax advocates have opposed Covid vaccination with at least equal fervor in my experience. That includes people like Sherri Tenpenny, James Lyons-Weiler and RFK Jr. plus groups and websites that promote their garbage. They haven’t forgotten their hatred of childhood vaccines, but are concentrating on Covid shots now, because that’s the hot topic and a source of potential converts.

No, especially because most Republicans report having gotten at least one Covid shot (56% as of late Sept.), still fewer than independents (68%) and way below the reported vaccination rate of Democrats (>90%).

I’m actually surprised the vaccination gap between Republicans and Democrats is as big as it is; I would’ve thought the numbers for Democrats were lower. Happy to be wrong about that!

I represent parents in child welfare court proceedings. Most of my clients are poor, and a disproportionate number are minorities. My colleagues were just talking today about how we’ve noticed an increase in vaccine hesitancy among our clients since the pandemic. It used to be incredibly rare; I think I encountered one anti-vax parent among literally thousands over the course of several years. Now they’re popping up left and right. And it’s not just about the COVID vaccine; we’re seeing more resistance to the regular childhood vaccines as well. There have been a lot of thinkpieces published in the last year linking vaccine hesitancy among minorities to the Tuskegee study and other horror stories of medical discrimination past and present. But those accounts don’t line up with the sudden and dramatic increase I’m seeing firsthand in my job.

FWIW, the man who AFAIK started the anti-MMR-vaccination hare, Andrew Wakefield, turned up at a rally of QAnon fans, as seen in a recent TV documentary over here.

No factual answer to this question is possible but, a rational hypothesis might be. “Maybe they are all dead.” alternately, “Maybe they all went back to their church.”

I just wanted to mention that that is a good reason for the RNA vaccines–they do not use eggs in their preparation. They are now investigating other RNA vaccines, for that reason (among others).

Marin County, which was a hotbed of anti MMR vaccine sentiment, is 97% fully Covid vaccinated and 5% partial for white people. Hispanics and Asians are even better, Blacks are a bit worse but still high.

Not true in California before the Disneyland outbreak. Then it was possible to get an exemption because the parents were averse to vaccinating their kids, which was pretty easy to do. After that they did away with that exemption and the religious exemption, and are cracking down on doctors who write an unreasonable amount of medical exemptions.

ETA: Ah, Voyager already covered Marin. Never mind :slight_smile:.

Credit where it’s due - Marin County (as of 2019) had 94.5% of kindergartners up to date on all vaccinations, half a percentage point below the state average.*

That’s still a bit lower than the necessary level for optimal herd immunity, but a considerable improvement, thanks in large measure to passage of the state law cracking down on dubious vaccine exemptions.

*haven’t seen pandemic-era figures, which likely are not as good.

Oops, that should be 87% and 5%. We’re good about vaxxing here, but not that good.

Ah, OK, I was wondering about that. The closest I could get to making sense of it was “97% overall, among all races, but whites were 5% partial”.

87 and 5 makes much more sense.