And here I thought it was an homage to George Carlin. Go figure.
Yeah, I remember it being mentioned that someone, a potential investor maybe?, asked if the thread titles with cunts and motherfuckers was the norm and he didn’t want to give off that impression.
… and it’s perfectly OK to say nasty things about non-posters. It’s perfectly OK to denegrate and disparage stupid ideas. It’s just not OK to directly insult the poster.
On the other comments, I decline to re-engage. The process was set, my explanation was WHY it was felt some limits were needed in the Pit, and why this is what we ended up with. So far as I am aware, it’s not being reopened.
On a purely personal level: I don’t read the Pit. I stopped looking at those threads back in those bad ole days that Giraffe so admires. I didn’t think (personally) that the reform went far enough. So I haven’t been back. I have no bone in this long-dead issue.
This is the opposite of not engaging.
Calling it any type of solution gives the impression that there was a problem in the first place, and pretending that insults our intelligence.
Just how long has it been since you’ve actually read Cecil’s columns? The good, early ones?
Consider the classic column where Cecil sez
*"Dear John:
If ignorance were cornflakes, John, you’d be General Mills. As you’d know if you’d been paying attention in high school biology, pregnant females — whether human, female, or wombat — retain no male residue once they expel the placenta after giving birth."*
He’s directly insulting the “poster”. And it’s probably the most remembered line in Cecil’s work.
I don’t have the books with me, but the first three books (ie: the good ones) are filled with comments like these (the latter books where Cecil is about 10 years behind the times and gushing about the intratubes like a granny asking “But why does the kitty even want a cheeseburger?”, not so much).
And those insults, quips and humor are what set the good, early books apart from dozens of other books with identical information (like those of Dave Feldman, Joel Achenbach(sp) and a half-dozen other factoid books)–Cecil’s were the only ones that were funny, insulting and had personality.)
If you don’t like insults, that’s fine. But the source material is rife with insults.
That and the cursing. Which has all been expunged from the columns.
For that matter, so have a lot of those classic insults. Unless Dex picks up the actual, physical books off the shelf, he has no way of knowing how wonderfully, anarchically blue those early columns were. Back then, Cecil was a mix of DaVinci and George Carlin or Lenny Bruce. Without that, I might as well read How Stuff Works.
Really? That’s…somewhere between sad and pathetic, if accurate. Got an example of a neutered column?
This is a valid question, in all fairness.
Hadn’t they already done that? Probably forgotten in the “Non-Pit Rules Apply” fiasco, Ed said:
Well, the one that I thought of first was my favorite column of all time, “The story of Schroedinger’s cat (an epic poem)”, but it looks like it’s been restored to all its four-letter glory! I’m very pleased. I remember the reason given for the earlier edit (which just replaced the word “shit” with asterisks, so it’s not like they cut the whole line or anything) was that their language was restricted when they republished the columns on AOL.
I remember being told that they hadn’t kept track of the changes that were made back then, and so there was no way to restore them to their original versions easily. Looks like someone took the initiative to find the older versions and see that they’re preserved. Good for them!
I don’t mind you supporting the changes. I know the Pit has never been your cup of tea. I just don’t like the changes being justified after the fact with nonsensical logic. It would be like the government arguing for a sudden change in tax policy on the grounds that unemployment is well under 20%. Given that unemployment is higher than in previous years, not lower, it’s weird reasoning.
Well…I’m more familiar with Cecil’s work than almost anyone on this message board, and that is not his overall philosophy as you state it. His philosophy is to both educate and snark, mildly on the snark. There is no “education” in the Pit when someone calls you a “fucking cunt.”
Note as well I refer to mild snark - I defy anyone to fund Cecil using the words “fucking cunt”, “fucking”, or “cunt” as an insult directed towards a questioner. Or anything even remotely close to that. Speaking generally, for anyone to claim or even imply that all insults are equal is inaccurate at best.
It would be nice, I think, if the detractors of the rules would at least affirm that almost all of the time that the “forbidden words” are used in the Pit and a Moderator steps in, the Moderator note ends in “No warning issued.” Because that’s been my experience.
So? Regardless of how often the rule is enforced, or what the consequences tend to be for breaking the rule, the fact is that the rule exists, and most of the people on this message board do try to follow the rules most of the time. So unless you’re suggesting that we just start ignoring the rule in question and breaking it at will because usually no warning is issued, I don’t see how this is relevant.
For years people have acted like this is THE WORST TRAGEDY EVER! ED SUX! DOWN WITH EVUL ED! Remember the carrying on? Multiple threads of hundreds of posts? Is it not still going on to some extent?
And the reality of it is:
- The rule has inconsequential impacts.
- The penalties for transgression are almost always a reminder of the rule.
While opinions may vary on the first bullet item, what is the problem exactly with affirming the second? Isn’t that sort of a fact easily seen on its face by viewing the Pit? Or is that actually in dispute? If it’s not in dispute, why isn’t it brought up more often? Not to try to dig into anyone, but that’s a critical point which is being overlooked here if one wants to have a factual discussion.
I’m sure most Dopers want to follow traffic laws, and yet I’ll bet 100% of those who drive have sped. Somehow they’re able to go on with life having broken an actual real-world law, so I imagine Dopers are mentally formidable and stable enough to move on with life having broken a language rule on an internet message board which carries inconsequential online and absolutely fuck-all zero penalties IRL. YMMV.
Oh, right. I had forgotten about cuntgate.
Sorry, I genuinely did not mean to dredge this whole thing up again.
I don’t care what the penalties are. The point is that it’s a stupid rule. “Oh, don’t worry, it’s really not enforced very strenuously” does not make it a better rule. It is just a stupid rule that is poorly enforced.
To put this even more clearly, the problem isn’t, “I want to be able to use the language of my choice in the Pit and only get a mod reminder for breaking the rule instead of an official warning or banning.” The problem is, “I want to be able to use the language of my choice in the Pit,” which we cannot currently do under the current rules. And in my experience, nearly 100% of the time that this rule is broken in the Pit, a mod comes along shortly to tweet or remind or admonish, which chills the conversation just as effectively as an Official Mod Warning would.
The party line has always reminded me of some of the stupid rules that pop up at work. I’m not dumb. Just because I can figure out a work around does not make the rule less retarded. It is not a board killing rule. I can still post basically what I want. It doesn’t make the rule less retarded.
This.
I thought at the time that some of the wailing and gnashing of teeth was overblown (unless it really had been the start of a slippery slope of censorship, a not unreasonable fear at the time), but I thought, and still do, that it was a stupid rule more indicative of bluenosery than actual concern for people’s feelings.
What mean this does?
I tried searching the internets via good friend google and all I could find was a nickname for people from Nova Scotia, the name of a yacht and an RV retailer.
So are you saying that some people from Nova Scotia buying an RV for their yacht got annoyed at “cunts” and “fuck yous”?