My mom tonight told me about a couple superstitions that I didn’t know about - not having been part of the crowd that would be influenced by them.
You don’t ever build a new house over an old basement. You dig a new basement and fill the old one in.
Huh? Maybe if there was a big fire and/or the house was badly damaged and the basement was structurally compromised somehow, but it’s supposedly taboo even of the basement is fine and sound… This to me would be more to do with wanting to replace an old cracked basement or wanting to re-design it, but this is what I was told. You don’t build on the same basement twice no matter what condition it’s in. Where did this come from and how wide-spread is it?
People don’t like repairing and re-using a sunken ship.
I was listening to a Stan Rogers song (The Mary Ellen Carter) about these guys bringing a sunken ship up from the sea floor. Mom said such a ship would be cut up for scrap iron even if it was still useable. So I thought this would be due to the steel having rusted too much or maybe the ship’s hull being bent, but apparently it’s not done for other reasons as well. Same question here as above.
Oh and one more - I read that the Hawaiian lava rock curse (the one where Pele will kick your ass if you remove any of her lava rock from the islands) was thought up and spread as a rumor by the people on the islands who had to clean up all the rocks that were taken but forgotten on bus seats and hotels and so forth. A lot of people seem to take this one rather seriously though; when I was there I seen a piece of crumbled rock with a letter that read something to the effect of "my sister took this rock from your island… blah blah blah… we’re sorry and are returning it blah blah blah… (it had been mailed it back to the Big Island) sitting in a restaurant. What’s the straight dope on this superstition?
If you believe in bad luck, then you’ll take them seriously. If you don’t believe in bad luck, and ignore the superstitions, you’ll become the main character in some urban legend or chain letter.
On the other hand, I’ve got this really cool boat you might be interested in buying. It was underwater for a while, but it’s been reconverted into an above-water boat again.
The belief that the A’a and Pahoehoe contains Pele’s mana and is her property alone is deeply rooted and widespread among Hawaiians.
That stones can contain mana and can heal or hurt is part of the indiginous religion of the Hawaiian people. Consider this before dismissing it as a mere superstition. It is most certainly not a rumor spread by janitors.
Believe or don’t, It will cause you no harm to respect the religion of the native culture.
No doubt some don’t, but it has been done more than a few times. The ironclad CSS Virginia was built from the sunken hulk of the USS Merrimack, scuttled when the Norfolk navy yard was abandoned in 1861.
The basement will have “settled” into the ground but the new part will take several years to do so, possibly causing damage at the interface between the new foundations and the old (over the basement).
Expense, sinking damage, unseen damage from sitting around on the sea floor.
Hmmm… I see. So the Hawaiian deal is a real cultural thing; I’d like to know how and when the bad luck part about taking rock away from the islands came about. I don’t think the early polynesians did a whole lot of exporting or trans-pacific tourist boat rides back when their culture was being “developed”, so did that particular aspect start becoming prevelant only once outsiders with big ships capable of hauling stuff away started showing up?
I was also told that superstitions, although they are just that, aren’t thought up for no reason out of thin air. There was always some kind of reason for believing them to be true. What were the reasons for these three?
The last one seems the most poorly supported; the chances are good that some time during the rest of your life after your Hawaiian vacation you’ll get hurt at least a little bit, but it’s supposed to be a delayed ass-kicking from the Fire God.
For the first two, are there any kind of statistics that show a higher rate of sinking or “bad luck” with re-used ships or basements that could at least appear to give credence to these superstitions?
And are there any interesting correlations between belief and monetary cost involved with abiding by them? Building a warship from scratch is pretty pricey, so I could imagine the builder’s commitment to the almighty dollar was stronger than to their superstitions. But a few thousand to make a new basement or a 25 foot garbage barge… maybe people can afford to buy in?
On preview I see a couple reasons for #1 and 2 more along the lines that I was thinking just posted …
I am not an expert in Hawaiian mythology but I have a cousin who is a Kupuna and a student of such things. I can run any questions you have past him if you dont mind waiting.
Pele is far more than a minor “fire god” she is a major deity, both protector and vicious if her will is denied. The lava was created by her and thus contains her mana. It is not to be trifled with.
It is strict Kapu and must not be moved lest the mover bring Peles wrath upon the people. Believe me when I tell you there were strict penalties for breaking Kapu in pre-contact Hawaii.
The breaker would most likely be bludgeoned to death upon the lava fields transfering his mana into the stone below. To Pele so to speak, thus increasing her power.
Very well, but explain to me why I can easily purchase lava rocks by the 50 lb bag at most nurseries. Surely there is a business of removing lava rocks, which I imagine Hawaii is a major exporter.
Is it disrespectful to get lava rocks in this manner?
The cinder used in horticulture around here is usually quarried, not harvested from lava floes. I doubt we export much as ancient cinder cones are quite common on the mainland and it is probably cheaper to produce and ship it from there.
A’a and pahoehoe are the hawaiian terms for basaltic lava, I dont know about chemical composition but the cinders I use to plant palm trees in are lighter and more brittle than the rocks I have seen on the ground on the big island lava fields.
IIRC it is permissible to remove stone for specific uses provided you ask Peles permission first and leave something in return. Pork or poi I believe. I will ask my cousin whos kuli’ana the lava is when I see him tomorrow.
This to me would be more to do with wanting to replace an old cracked basement or wanting to re-design it, but this is what I was told. You don’t build on the same basement twice no matter what condition it’s in. Where did this come from and how wide-spread is it?
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