Where is the outrage over mom 24/7 sex slave

The BBQ Pit
761

So what’s your point? Yes, God demanded Abraham kill Isaac, and Abraham tried to, thereby putting his obedience to God above the best interests of his child. Obviously. Which are YOU choosing to do? YOU’RE the one who has raised the religious analogy; precisely where are you trying to take it?

Then you’re assumably not acting as your husband’s slave.

But it obviously does mean it’s not happening in any observable way, which only begs the question of what the hell you’re actually talking about. If you are acting like a “slave” in a way that does not communicate “slave” to outside observers, including not just your kids but your mom and others, then I think we probably are defining the terms “slave” and “subservient” differently. I also think you may well be underestimating what your children see and understand. If you think you are kneeling at your husband’s feet and your kids don’t see that, or don’t draw the conclusion it’s appropriate and okay, then you are dreaming.

Such as? How can you demostrate submissiveness in a way that doesn’t show? Even if you limit that to things like not answering back, or not demanding politeness in communication – he yells BRING ME A SANDWICH! and you bring him a sandwich – your kids are going to see that and draw conclusions as to what is appopriate behavior and what is not.

This is completely nonresponsive to what we are saying. YOU are the chief models of appropriate behavior for your kids, not their grandparents. Your kids likely do not know, and would not care, what their financial arrangements are. But as for that, if in their relationship your mother is the “Dom” and your stepfather the “sub” and they are still modeling unequal gender roles – that’s not a great example for your kids, either.

What is wrong is to expect them to not believe that whatever “type” of person YOU are is the best type of person to be. You are their mother. Your behavior and your reactions are what they will focus on for day-to-day examples of how to function in the world – how to interact with a lover, how to communicate, how to value themselves and others. And if you are a man’s slave 24/7, they are going to think that is not just okay, but maybe even optimal. The way you live your life is how you give them information, and IMO you have an obligation to give them good information because you are their parent. Good parenting – especially of girls – is IMO not consistent with being any man’s slave.

762

OK, Sarahfeena, don’t take this the wrong way, but in some ways this is the most disturbing post I’ve read in these threads. You honestly don’t bother to work on your relationship with your husband? You think that if you just close your eyes, everything will work out between you?

You are an adult, with adult human needs, and the same for your spouse. If you don’t meet each other’s needs, what happens when someone else will? I’d like to think that I’d put my family’s needs waaaaay before mine, but I’d rather not test myself that way, because I know that I’m a fallible human being. It’s easy for me to tell myself that there’s no way I’d throw away my marriage and family for some meaningless whatever, but I guess I don’t trust myself enough to know for sure what I’d do if I was in a situation where I couldn’t get my human needs met.

Sure, I feel like I’d never do such a thing, and I can say to myself today that I’d never do such a thing, but when you look around at everyone else, it is transparently clear that many people are perfectly capable of doing those things, and more. And while I like to think I’m more tough minded and have more integrity than most people, and maybe I am, but if so the evidence from my life shows that even if I am it’s only by a small amount.

If you put your life aside to take care of your kids, it’s easy to imagine one day waking up and finding yourself in some strange world you never expected, and all because you weren’t paying attention. Yes, absolutely you need to make your children the top priority. But the sole priority? That’s a recipe for disaster, because you are too fallible as a human to put that much trust in yourself, never mind your spouse.

763

I don’t mean to be an ass. I have to say, though…the whole thing kind of sounds like she is elevating her husband to Godlike status (in my religion, and many other mainstream religions, one only kneels to God, for instance). So, I’m trying to figure out if she really does see that parallel. Is that an unreasonable question?

764

**Well I happen to think I’m not so bad a “type” of person to be. YMMV (obviously) but I am raising kids that know how to stand up for themselves without being an ass about it. They have high self-esteem, even though they deal with neighborhood bullies. They are smart and blind to color, religion, and sexuality (as much as a child can be.)

Also, why do you say “especially of girls”? Are you implying that boys somehow deserve less than the best? Just asking. **

765

I don’t have a dom. In my house my word is law and woe be unto those who deign to challenge my rule. Uh, you must realize that this only applies when my wife isn’t actually at home.

Marc

766

Now I’m on the hot seat, aren’t I? Don’t get me wrong…I don’t actually expect it to be this way for long. It was kind of like this for a while when my 3 1/2 year old was born, and it’s been back to the same when my second baby was born (he’ll be a year on Saturday), though slowly improving since he started sleeping on a regular basis. I think these things go up and down over time depending on what else is going on. My husband and I communicate pretty well, we have a good idea of what we both want out of life and what the little things are we can do for each other to keep the relationship alive…it’s just not what I’d call the main focus right now. I think what I really mean by what I said is that a lot of the joy in life and our relationship right now comes from the fact that we have created this little family, and when we are interacting with them…in good ways and bad…it’s very much about us as partners, as well as about the kids. I believe that the family bonding we do bonds us more tightly as a couple, as well.

767

Obviously the religion parrallel, like so many other things I’ve said, didn’t get the point across in the way I’d hoped it would. Kneeling, to me, is a sign of affection and devotion, just like hugging and kissing and sex. Some couples give nose kisses, some play with theiir partner’s ear lobes. All couples have little things they do together that are like their own way of showing affection. Kneeling is like that. It has nothing to do with any god or religious trappings.

And I didn’t think you were being an ass.

Thank you for the clarification. It sounds like you do have a good head on your shoulders after all!! (teasing) Happy early birthday to your little one, and remember to make time for “us” (meaning you and hubby.)

768

Thank you. Maybe my Catholic upbringing has too much baggage (kneeling-wise) for this analogy. It just has a very, very deep symbolism to me.

769

Heh, me too. Just got nothin’ to do with Catholicism! :smiley:

770

I think freekalette could power a small hydroelectric dam with the amount of furious backpedaling I’ve seen from her. She acts as a slave 24/7 and is completely submissive to all of her husband’s whims and demands, except that actually she doesn’t really act like a slave, she just thinks about being a slave, and her husband punishes her all the time, except when he doesn’t, and she demonstrates humility and servility, except that she doesn’t, and… I feel like someone here has completely lost the plot, and I’m thinking it’s not me.

This is completely off-topic, but seeing as how we’re now on page 16 of this thread, why the hell not: Arguing in front of your kids is not necessarily a bad thing. (I believe freekalette mentioned earlier somewhere that she and hub are careful never to argue or fight in front of the children.) I mean, viciously fighting and tearing each other down, etc., is bad, but if you’re able to have an argument with each other while still maintaining basic standards of decency and respect, and then resolve the conflict at some point, it can be helpful for kids to see this as a model of conflict resolution. Again, this only applies if you’re able to handle arguments in a mature, reasonable way. And if you’re not doing some kind of S/m roleplaying in the process.

…even more completely off-topic, I just went back to the original thread to check the ages of the kids involved, and I am wondering how the 11-year-old in this situation feels, being parented by someone 12 years her (his?) senior.

771

Nor are they necessarily good parents. Abraham was not being a good parent when he tried to stick a knife in his son, and AFAIK no Christian (or Jew or Muslim) reads that passage for parenting pointers; that’s not what the story is about. So the fact that you submit yourself to your husband doesn’t make you a good parent, either.

Then you define them for me.

The extent of your “slavery” to your husband within the home is “looks and whispers”? :rolleyes: Besides, that’s bullshit: You’ve already said in this and the other thread that he can tell you how to dress; order your around; decide where you go to eat; and tickle you even after you protest and knowing that you “HATE” it (your word). So “looks and whispers,” my ass.

Your behavior in this thread is completely irrelevant unless your kids are reading it. The question is whether you recognize the disconnect between asserting that you teach your children equality and mutual respect within relationships while simultaneously telling us that your husband orders you around and you are his “slave.” IOW What you DO (put up with inequality and disrespect) does not match what you SAY (your children should not put up with inequality and disrespect). Why do you think they will listen to only what you say and not learn from what you do, or allow to be done to you?

How could they possibly know how to stand up for themselves, in the context of a marriage or intimate relationship? You’re sure as hell not teaching them. You’re teaching them that it is appropriate for them to submit to a partner, to the extent of not getting to decide how they dress, where they go to eat, or even whether they can be touched or not. Because that’s what you DO. That’s how you allow yourself to be treated, at least according to you. So the best spin I can put on it is that you have some expectation that your kids will listen to the words you say and disregard the things you do (“Do as I say, not as a do”), but I think it’s pretty well proven that very rarely works.

[quote]
They have high self-esteem, even though they deal with neighborhood bullies. They are smart and blind to color, religion, and sexuality (as much as a child can be.)[/quiote]

But who knows what they think of gender roles, right? Assuming they think Mom and Stepdad, have the right of it, no doubt they think Daddy’s the boss and Mommy does whatever he tells her to.

I say “especially of girls” because it is better to be the oppressor than the oppressed. Neither is good, much less best, but if you model inequality of gender or interpersonal roles, such that one person makes all the decisions and one person follows obediently behind, it’s better to be the one making the rules than the one who has to follow them. When you model inequality to your kids – Daddy makes the rules, Mommy does what he says – then you rurn the very real risk of raising boys who think they are rule-makers by nature and right, and girls who think they are are rule-followers by nature and relegation. That’s bad for boys, but it’s obviously much worse for girls.

772

Well, MsWhatsit, the other parent is only ~17 years senior to the 11 year old, if I do the math correctly.

The 11 year old has been dealing with the consequences of being born to a teenage mother since she was, well, born.

773

What it means to you is beside the point. The issues is what it means to your children, and what it tells them is that women should be abjectly submissive to men. You can’ts seem to get your head out of what all this game play means to you (which is irrelevant to the whole conversation) and consider how it looks to your kids.

774

So does your husband kneel to you? Because if it’s a sign of affection and devotion, like hugging and kissing and sex, devoid of the trappings of dominance and submission, then presumably he kneels to you as well.

The point is that there is inherent in the structure of the dominant/submissive relationship a inequality of power – that’s one of the reasons some people like it. When you import that inequalilty into your daily life around your children, you are teaching them that it is okay. And when you do it 24/7, they are simply not going to understand that it is a “game.” How could they? It’s how you live your life, everyday. You can minimize it all you want – and at this point I think it’s clear you either initially overstated the extent of your 24/7 “slavery”, or you are minimizing it now in the face of criticism – but if that is in fact what you do, you will not be able to explain it in a way that is is healthy or understandable for kids who are 11, 7, and 3.

775

IIRC, her husband is 23, which makes him 12 years older than her 11-year-old.

776

VT? :confused:

It seems almost like Joe isn’t the only one she’s subserviant too, or whatever.

I think at this point, freekalette, that you do have some serious issues-at least, as far as self-esteem goes. As someone mentioned earlier, maybe seeing a therapist might help with the depression, “I won’t get out of bed, I want to die” angle.

Good luck. I’m not trying to rag on you-but I think there’s something fishy about what you’re telling us. You also seem very confused.

777

I’m gonna respond to this one, then I have to go cook supper.

LOOKS AND WHISPERS are what happens IN FRONT OF THE KIDS. Got it? Yes, sometimes Joe tells me what to wear. The kids don’t hear it; they just see that I’m wearing whatever I’m wearing. Since they aren’t aware I was TOLD to wear jeans and a black t-shirt today, then it’s no different TO THEM than any other day when I wear this same outfit (without being told to.) I have had clothespins put on my nipples, but the kids don’t see it. They see me mouthing off and calling Joe a doodoo-head (or whatever) and they laugh about it. A week later when they’re at their gran’s they DO NOT SEE that Joe is clipping little wooden pins all over my breasts. When we are talking about an upcoming child’s birthday, they see me lean over and whisper in his ear, but they DON’T hear me say “I’ll give YOU a birthday spanking!” They ask where we are going for supper, and when Joe says McDonald’s, they hear me say “Yep, Mickey Dee’s it is!!” And I never TELL them that I would have rather gone to Burger King.

778

I have to give you credit, Dio. I got tired of this(checks to see if I’m in the Pit) emotionally immature, sexually acting out, poor excuse for a parent, attention whore 10 pages back. I came today to see what could possibly be taking up 16 pages. Not much–more back pedalling and statements that seem to come straight out of Parenting magazine. Someone who thinks chanting “taco” over and and over again at the age of 27 funny or refers to her husband as a “doodoohead” is not an adult. I don’t often call names, but I am happy to make an exception in this case. Get some help, freekalette. You need it. Your kids need it, for having to deal with living in 3 households over the course of their short lives, a dead beat (according to you, anyway) crackhead father, a now blended family with parents who live for their pleasure, and your obsession with yourself.

You’ll wear yourself out, Dio. Come kneel by me and I’ll pat your head…

779

Again, you completely miss the point: Either you contribute to the decision-making in the family, or you don’t. They ask where you are going for supper, and then what happens? Do you look at Joe to provide the answer? You never offer an opinion or suggestion? If you do, and he vetoes it, does he always ultimately make the decision? Because that’s what “sumission” means, never mind “slave”: He decides. All the time. Every time. If your kids see you NEVER MAKING A DECISION if Joe is at all concerned, then they are going to conclude that Dads make decisions, Moms don’t. THAT’S what you’re teaching them.

And if your idea of 24/7 slavery is that you mouth off without consequences until he gets around to nipple clips a week later, you’ll have to take it up with the BDSM whether you actually get to refer to yourself as a slave. I’m guessing the answer would be “no,” but, in the words of Austen Powers, that’s not my bag, man.

780

I missed this aspect of the conversation. I will bow out.