Which church should I attend?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Here’s my quandry. I have attended 2 Unitarian Universalist churches for the past several years. I attended church N for several years. They had a very good minister, and the religious education for my kids was certainly adequate. We got to know and be friends with several couples in the congregation, and there was a sizeable circle of people close to our age (say 30-55). On thing that bothered me a bit was that church N was EXTREMELY liberal. It was a novel situation for me to find myself somewhere where I was often the most conservative voice. Another related “problem” was that it seemed to say all viewpoints/interpretations were equally valid, which to me when carried to its extreme results in saying nothing is valid. Standing for everything is to me little different than standing for nothing. (We can discuss this to whatever extent you feel interesting.)

2 years ago the minister left church N. They hired an interim minister who absolutely sucked. I put up with a year of her worthless sermons, being alternatively pissed off and bored, figuring they’d hire someone better. When the search was unsuccessful after one year, and they renewed the interim’s contract, I couldn’t put up with any more.

So last year we attended church H. I must point out that neither N or H are in our immediate neighborhood. It takes about 15 min to drive to N, and 20-25 to H. H has a minister who may well be the best speaker I have ever heard. I would pay to attend a lecture series by him. Each Sunday he talks is a wonderful, educating, challenging, entertaining experience. BUT, the congregation is much different than N. Suffice it to say that in the year of attending, we became friends with but one couple. The congregation as a whole is much older than us. Also far more conservative than N (and in many ways more in line with my views). On the plus side, church H seems to me to present more of an idea of what UU represents, rather than N’s “anything goes” approach.

Went to the first service of the year yesterday (UU’s take the summer off) and saw a whole bunch of people I recognized and felt, “Oh yeah, I recognize them, but I never got to know them last year and don’t anticipate getting to know them this year, and I really am not interested in them, and they haven’t shown any signs of being interested in me.”

By contrast, we still receive social invitations from the gang at N. When we saw them over the summer, several folk were excited to tell us they had a new minister, and asked if that would bring us back. I saw the new minister. He gave his try out speech for the N hiring committee at H. He appears adequate at least, and not offensive. Unfortunately, just about anyone would pale against the guy at H.

So, there’s my quandry. Which church do I attend now? Like I said, we went to H yesterday, and intend to go to N next week. (The couple we became friends with at H are moving this fall where they will be closer to N - they are attending N with us next Sun after which we will have brunch at our house and talk about this.) My thoughts are that if the new guy at N is at least tolerable, I’d probably prefer to go there on a regular basis, where I truly feel part of the community, and sprinkle in a visit to H every month or 2 when I see the minister there is giving an especially interesting talk. I would appreciate your input.

Guess I should consider myself lucky to have to choose between 2 churches that both have so much going for them, tho in different ways.

2

<hijack>

The klan burns crosses on black peoples lawn…they burn question marks on the lawns of UU churches

:smiley:

<hijack>

3

The Church of Cthulu.

4

Well, much the same thing happened to Mrs. Kunilou and me. What it came down to eventually was two things:

  1. at the old church we were definitely in the more conservative group, so much so that we were uncomfortable with some of the messages coming out of the pulpit. At the new church we are more in the center-left of the congregation.

  2. How’s the religious program for your kids at the new church? Our old church was a very old congregation and many weeks our children WERE the sunday School program. By contrast the new church has a large group of kids in the SS program, and my kids are much happier there.

  3. All other things being equal, I’d bite the bullet and go to the church my kids fit in better with.

5

</Susan Sarandon>

I believe in the Church of Baseball.

</off Susan Sarandon>

6

Kunilou, both offer very good kids’ programs. Of course, to make it easy, I have 3 kids and 1 prefers the program at H, 1 prefers N, and the 3d hates them both!

There are a bunch more considerations. For 1, H is very well established, solvent, no problems with the facility or debt. N seems to be in a middle ground, unsure whether they should stay as they are, try to aggressively expand, or even shrink - possilbly split in 2. As far as the physical plant is concerned, H has the school in a separate building. So, once we leave the church to pick up our kids, we tend to head to our car instead of going back for fellowship. Whereas in N, everything is in one building, and people tend to stick around much more for discussions. Of course, they are debating whether they need to expand.

The biggest thing drawing me to N is the feeling of community. I am pretty livberal in many of my views, and live in an extremely conservative area. I do not attend the neighborhood churches. Tho I have certain friends in the area, in many ways I do not feel really a member of the community. And it really appeals to me that the folk at church N seem to really appreciate having me as a member. Whereas the folk at H are very distant. No matter how tough you consider yourself, it is appealing to be really accepted somewhere. I’m not phrasing this well at all.

But damn, the guy at H is SOO GOOD. He cracked me up yesterday. To paraphrase, he said he really isn’t too interested in religious debates anymore. For example, really couldn’t care less about Paul’s position on the role of women in the church. But when Paul said, “When I became a man, I put away my childish ways.” That is wisdon the minister feels can speak to us in our daily lives. So this year, once a month he will be talking about “Wisdom.” Last year it was “Practical ethics.”

So community, vs. a fabulous speaker. Decisions, decisions. Thanks for your input.

7

I’ve been in your position before. The only thing you have to figure out is what’s more important to you. Are you at church to make friends, and possibly learn from them? Or are you there to hear a good sermon and learn something from the minister. I would, personally, choose the better speaker, and try to make more friends there. But, that may not work for you. Talk with the wife and kids and decide amongst yourselves what you find more important. Good luck.

8

Damn, Dinsdale! If it weren’t for the UU reference, I’d swear I was talking with my wife – our situations are that close.

Okay, so it comes down to a great preacher vs. a great community. My feeling is that the ministers will change a lot more often than the sense of community. It seems like the only thing you like about church H is the minister. You’ve been there for a year, you haven’t made any friends and your kids aren’t any more in favor of the new church than the old.

I’d give the old church several more visits. By then you’ll have a pretty good idea of the new minister’s viewpoints and sermon skills.

9

Evangelical Lutheran. They’re socialists to the Unitarians’ champagne anarchists–respectful of other views, but with some definite teachings. Sorta what Vatican II Catholicism was heading for before it got hijacked by the conservatives.

Avoid the Neo-Baptist Missouri Synod.

10

I’m not a believer, so my view is probably coloured by that, but I personally choose church N. My reasons:

  • You have made friends at church N.
  • Church N is closer to your house.
  • Church N sounds like it’s more in need of members for the congregation than church H.

If you do decide to leave church H, make sure you leave with a bang, to avoid a similar indecision in the future. Get in a heated argument with the minister during a sermon, start arguing vehemently against whatever his position is (you can find some good pointers in Great Debates) and then say loudly “I’m leaving and taking my family with me, you heretics!” And at least you’ll leave knowing that everyone at church H will remember you.

11

Deja Vu, that’s where I found myself last spring when I decided I needed the change in my life. I was raised R.C. but along the way have been everything from Missouri Lutheran to Southern Baptist. I happened to be dating a very R.C. woman last spring so when she said Lutherans were just watered down Catholics I said I prefer to think of myself as a reform heretic

In all seriousness I found a really good church home with the ELCA. I happen to like the liturgy though a few people find it too structured. The services may not look liberal but they welcome everyone regardless of sexuality. Other churches were a destructive force when a close family member was coming out. The Baptists can’t even handle women pastors let alone gays. Sorry to be on a rant but I have a problem with people who get hung up on the world being created in 144 hours at the expense of Christ’s message of love.

To show I’m not a complete hardass I admit that the Baptists taught me to say “amen!” like I mean it.

12

My formerly-Methodist wife has always had an affinity to the RCC, but not its attitudes toward women and was not about to raise our daughters in it, so the ELCA’s attitudes mirror hers. She also likes the ELCA liturgy. Maybe it’s the singing.

There is a very real Scandanavian tradition in the ELCA. (As it turns out I go to the “right” (Norskie) church in my grandmother’s eyes. She was RC but would be happy I wasn’t going to the Swedish one.) This has two positive results: tall blondes and a very open mind about all races as well as the gender and sexuality non-issues. And there are outreaches and missions to go with it. Our Swedish (see how open we are?) pastor was born on a mission in Africa and still retains strong ties to it. And this is boring, practical, improve-farming-methods-and-get-the-kids-immunized missionary work. They feel that if you live a good life you will attract converts.

Maybe the best part is that they are liberals in the classic sense. In this self-centered world, when was the last time you heard someone talk about duty? Our ol’ Wobbly pastor is always reminding us of our social resposibilities to the community, the poor, and the downtrodden.

Some of the more enthusiastic differentiations between the RCC and the ELCA our assistant pastor draws can make me defensive, but she’s a former Methodist, so she’s been mainlined anti-papist propaganda since birth.

13

Arnold, I like your style!