Peyton Manning needs to win a freaking playoff game before anyone thinks about putting him in the HOF.
Since we’ve gotten all the older guys who have chances, and I love this kind of stuff, I’ll go out on a limb with a couple first or second year guys:
Roy Williams (the safety not the Texas receiver)
Dwight Freeney
Clinton Portis
Bryant McKinnie
That reminds me, he’s older than the other guys, but Leonard Davis.
Rice, Brown, Favre, E. Smith, Sharpe, B. Smith, Allen, Seau, and Rod Woodson are no questions asked 1st balloters.
I think Faulk will be as well along with Aeneas Williams, Jonathon Ogden, Jerome Bettis, Mitchell, and Roaf.
I think if he retired today, Ray Lewis would as well, though maybe not 1st ballot. His tackle numbers are astounding. Jesus, I just looked at his bio and he’s only 28??
Not quite yet: Moss (though he’s closer than you’d think for only a 6th year guy), Manning, Harrison, Pace, Bledsoe, Gozalez, McNair
Probably, but not 1st ballot: Randle, George, Martin, Isaac Bruce
Maybe: Rod Smith (only 2 PBs, but 50+ TDs), Shields, Troy Vincent (only 3 PB’s, but 40+ INTs and one of the better guys in the league), Kevin Mawae (4 PBs, not well known though).
Probable and Possible Recent retirees: Elway (duh), Barry Sanders, Darell Green, Deion (easily, IMHO), Derrick Thomas, Dawson, Carnell Lake, Neil Smith (6 PBs), Ben Coates (maybe; TEs have a tough time getting in and he played at the same time as Sharpe), Leroy Butler (Only guy close to 20 sacks and 40 ints, but I don’t think so anyway).
This might be the golden age of NFL players. Lots of good ones lately
I still say no way to Simms. Remember that one of “his rings” was won with the backup QB playing. Football reference.com gives the following stats:
2 time Pro-Bowler (I mean, WOW!)
Top ten in
Pass attempts: 1984-3, 1985-5, 1986-10, 1988-5
Completions: 1984-5, 1985-7, 1986-10, 1988-7
Passing yards: 1984-3, 1985-4, 1986-8, 1988-7
Passing TDs: 1984-8, 1985-7t, 1986-7t, 1987-10, 1988-5, 1993-10t
That’s ONE time of being in the top three in any category, and he did that exactly once.
Among the league’s all-time top 50
Pass attempts: 19
Completions: 20
Passing yards: 18
Passing TDs: 25
Okay, maybe those look kind of good, even with the longer seasons, the rules encouraging passing, etc. Here’s the stats for Favre:
7 time Pro Bowler, 3 time MVP
Pass attempts: 1992-5, 1993-2, 1994-4, 1995-4, 1996-5, 1997-6, 1998-2, 1999-1, 2000-2, 2002-5t
Completions: 1992-2t, 1993-2, 1994-4, 1995-2, 1996-3t, 1997-4, 1998-1, 1999-2, 2000-3, 2001-7, 2002-5, 2003-6t
Passing yards: 1992-9, 1993-6, 1994-5, 1995-1, 1996-4, 1997-2, 1998-1, 1999-4, 2000-5, 2001-3, 2002-8
Passing TDs: 1992-8t, 1993-5, 1994-2, 1995-1, 1996-1, 1997-1, 1998-3, 1999-8t, 2000-10t, 2001-2t, 2002-2t, 2003-3t
Among the league’s all-time top 50
Pass attempts: 5
Completions: 4
Passing yards: 5
Passing TDs: 3
You see how many more times he does things like lead the league or place in the top three? I’m not saying set the bar at Favre, just set it higher than Simms!
If Phil Simms gets in the HOF, I will blow the place up.
Look at all-time passer ratings:
Simms is a 78.5
Jeff Freaking Blake is a 79.2!!!
Jim Everett is a 78.6
Mark Rypien: 78.9
Elvis Grbac: 79.3
Does this sound like HOF company to you?
Now one point that should be made is: Elway is a 79.9? WTF?
And Johnny Unitas is a 78.2…but the passing game was so different with Unitas played, I think it’s an apples to oranges comparison.
Of course if Joe Namath can get into the HOF…anyone can get in…Passer rating: 65.46
How can anyone possibly suggest Clinton Portis? He’s in his second year! Sure, 1500 yards is a great rookie year, and he’s doing pretty well this year, but come on… he’s got another 8 years to play before you can say whether or not he has a chance.
But as long as we’re naming young running backs, how about Jamal Lewis? 1300+ rushing yards and a super bowl ring his rookie year, sat out 2001 recovering from (his second) knee reconstruction, 1300+ rushing yards in 2002, and over 1000 yards in 8 games so far this year. Plus an NFL record 295 yards rushing in a single game. He’s also never played with a star QB - all those rushing yards have come with the defense keyed on the run.
Let me throw out the name Ricky Watters. I am not sure if he still playing or not, but he is top ten all-time in yards from scrimmage and I beleive has over 10,000 yards rushing.
How did you get to the name Portis without reading any of the words before that, where I said “I’ll go out on a limb with first or second year guys?”
Wait, that seemed a little standoffish. Pretend there’s a smiley or something in that previous post.
I think the distinction you’re looking for is that Unitas was the greatest man to ever quarterback a football team, while Simms was the proto-Trent Dilfer.
Anyway, among current players, I say Steve McNair needs just two more good seasons. He’s only slightly behind Favre in QB rating, TD/INT ratio, and comp percent. He’s got slightly better Yards per attempt for passing, and much better running. The only real statistical difference is that McNair has only thrown the ball half as many times (presumably due to injury and a few good years out of Eddie George). Give him two more years at this level, and he’s in without a debate.
Now for (I think) a new one: Stephen Davis will also make it barring injury in the next few years. He’s got 3 consecutive 1300+ yard seasons (and would have had 4 if Spurrier gave him the damn ball last year. He nearly made 1000 with less than 1/3 of the carries). He needs 8 yards to pick up 1000 this year. He has a respectable yards per pass, though not too many attempts. Give him three more years and he makes it.
I don’t know if I should be ducking or not when I get ready for the responses, but what about Vinny Testaverde? Now I hate the Jets, but he is in the top ten of all the following categories:
Passes attempted, passes completed, TD’s thrown, and total yards.
In the last category, he just passed Johnny U and Joe Montana and is just the 9th player in history to join the 40k club.
Being a Bills fan, I would like to see Bledsoe do well enough to join the HOF, but his numbers right now are borderline.
And to move off of QB’s, what about Dante Hall? Does he need to do more than return kicks to make it to the hall?
Dude, Vinny Interceptaverde barely has more TDs than INTS. I watched him play live a couple times, and I swear you could see the DBs’ eyes light up every time he lobbed a little lollipop.
Hanging around the league because some crappy teams need a slightly less crappy QB doesn’t make him a HOFer.
Easy… I hate the Broncos, and Portis’ name just jumped out at me. Of course, I grew up just outside Baltimore, and even though I hate the Colts even more than the Broncos, I skipped right over Dwight Freeney, so make of that what you will.
Eh. Probably not. He’d be a lock for Hall of Good, but not Hall of Fame.
I only saw him play once. People called that game the “greatest MNF game of all time.” Still doesn’t qualify him as HoF material. One hint: as a general rule, HoF Qb’s retire as starters. If they are still playing, they deserve to start.
Okay, I gave my thoughts on the AFC East, now let’s switch conferences to the NFC East. I will try to be impartial toward the Giants, though I’m so hardcore that may be tough.
Kerry Collins should go to the Hall of Good with Vinny. Unless he wins two Superbowls in a row, not even a thought. whimpers
Michael Strahan should get in easily, even without the sack record.
Brian Mitchell despite his pathetic, horrible, worthless play this year, past performance already qualified him.
Bruce Smith could go despite lackluster performance with the 'Skins.
Larry Allen I have no idea, but all the pundits love him.
Uh…no…that’s not the distinction I was making but thanks for trying.
In terms of Steve McNair…HE’S GOT TO GO TO A FRIGGIN PRO BOWL GAME BEFORE YOU CAN PUT HIM IN CANTON. Say he makes the Pro Bowl the next 3 seasons…let’s see, 0+3=3 People get in the HOF for 3 Pro Bowls? Shit, in that case put Chokaverde and Simms in…hell throw in Boomer Esiason…what the fuk…my Grandma Avis had a great arm…maybe she deserves her own wing…give me a break.
McNair plays hurt, he’s tough, he’s this, he’s that…thats fantastic…but until you can tell me he is one of the top SIX QBs in the league (which is what the Pro Bowl says) for the majority of his career…he shouldn’t belong in Canton.
You’re nuts, mate.
Kurt Warner not a Hall of Famer? Apart from the fact that he has the highest career passer rating in history, and the highest career completion percentage in history, he also passed for more yards in a single season than ANYONE except Marino- and nobody else will ever crack 5K yards- as well as throwing for more touchdowns than anyone but Marino in one season.
As far as Seau goes- he was the best linebacker in the league for nearly ten years; he’s still in the top ten in his 15th year. How you can suggest he’s on the bubble is beyond me.
I think a lot of you guys are equating pro bowl appearances with Hall of Fame worthiness. The best six, say, QBs don’t necessarily go to the pro bowl. At best, the best three from each league do. You can be the fourth-best passer in the NFC and still be better than every guy in the AFC, but you don’t go to the PB. More importantly, you don’t necessarily have to play amazing football for your entire career to be a Hall of Famer; Eric Dickerson played one “perfect” season, three superb ones, and three good ones, and a bunch of okay ones, and is already in. Of course, he was also once traded for SIX 1st and 2nd round draft picks AND two starting backs, which doesn’t hurt.
There’s a category in the Hall of players who put up astounding statistics every year, but do so on horrible, horrible teams which end up going nowhere. Obviously, #1 on this list will (soon) be Barry Sanders; there’s a current player who will join him- Corey Dillon. Six straight 1000 yard seasons, running behind the league’s worst offensive lines, and with eight men in the box on virtually every play? THAT, my friends, is achievement. Barry Sanders-like achievement.
Au contraire, my friend; until the start of last season, EG was the Titans’ franchise. Their Super Bowl losing team of '99 had a game plan that went pretty much like this:
Give ball to George. Repeat. If yards to go > 5, tell McNair to run a bootleg and throw to Kevin Dyson if possible. If yards to go < 5, give ball to Eddie George.
On defense, it went a little like this: Cover the pass. Repeat until Jevon Kearse flattens quarterback, or other team scores.
EG was more vital to the Titans during those years than Jamal Lewis was to the Ravens SB team. McNair was a great scrambler but a mediocre passer at that point; the Ravens had Trent Dilfer, who ran like there was gum stuck to his shoes, but complete short throws all day. The Ravens’ defense was more consistent than the big-play Titan defense.
The Titans were just a yard shy of doing what the Ravens did a couple years later, and the Bucs last year- winning a Super Bowl with a smothering defense and an offense that didn’t score anything but field goals until the fourth quarter.
Re: Kurt Warner. As of right now, he’s got roughly 400 more yards than Kordell Stewart. mouthbreather did say “assuming his days as a starter are over.” There’s a better-than-decent chance he won’t ever play another full season as a starter, considering that he’s 32, and by next season, it will have been two full years of sitting on the bench and awful, awful football for him.
True, his two-year run put him up amongst the greats, but as of right now, he’s an aging quarterback who has only those two years to show for himself. Neil Lomax put up more passing yards in one season than anybody besides Marino, Fouts, Warner and Warren Moon, but nobody’s mentioned him for the Hall. Similarly, Steve Beuerlein threw for 36 TD’s the same year Warner had his best year (41). Obviously Warner’s years were superior to each of those guys, but the point remains. The Hall of Fame, ever-diminishing as its standards may be, requires a little bit more than two spectacular years.
Eddie George, in my opinion, isn’t a Hall of Fame back. A really good workhorse type, and consistent, but not an all-timer. I think his numbers might be more a product of all his carries, and not his ability. Career-wise, he’s got a significantly lower per-carry average than anybody who you’d consider remotely near Hall of Fame caliber.
I also think Steve McNair can make it, not because of Pro Bowls or anything like that, but simply because he’s a winner. He’s got good numbers, he’s been to the Super Bowl, and as far as hardware goes, he’ll get his Pro Bowl, and maybe an MVP, this season. He’s one of those guys I think needs to play five more years or so, though. There really are a lot of quarterbacks out there who put up numbers.
One name I’d like to throw out there just because I’m curious is Randall Cunningham. I’m admittedly biased towards him, because I grew up during his glory years in Philly, but some of the stuff he did was mind-blowing. Consider 1990: 3466 yards and 30 TD’s passing, and 942 yards rushing. He’s never even mentioned, though, in my experience. What do you all think? Why doesn’t he deserve to get in?
How about Jason Elam?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/2495/career
Funny, I don’t remember that ever being on the ballot. You’re making something of the Pro Bowl as if it’s anything other than a popularity contest. McNair will go if he stays healthy because he has numbers virtually identical to Favre’s over the last 8 or 9 seasons, and because he routinely leads his team deep into the postseason. THAT’S what’s required to get into Canton, not winning freaking Homecoming King.