[QUOTE=devilsknew]
Not only eels… I believe there are some other species that do as well. But if you want to get technical, all life produces electricity, even you.
[/QUOTE]
‘Only’ as in ‘But’.
Yes, we all run on electricity. My point (and Terrifel’s) is that electric eels possess organs specifically to create a large charge of electricity that they may use at will. Humans don’t.
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
Humans don’t.
[/QUOTE]
John Chang is a human.
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
John Chang is a human.
[/QUOTE]
Which means that he very likely doesn’t have any electric organs. So if he is discharging electricity, he’s not doing it in the same way that an electric eel does.
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
See, to me it appears as if the fire is starting at the contact point with his hand. If he is arcing enough electricity or chi through his body, he wouldn’t need an accelerant or any type of chemical.
[/QUOTE]
Concurrently, one could also easily conceal and wad up a very thin metal wire filament in a Newspaper, leave it poking up, and if one were to happen to generate enough electricity bodily, and complete the circuit, one might have a heat flashpoint. Much like an old car cigarette lighter.
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
Concurrently, one could also easily conceal and wad up a very thin metal wire filament in a Newspaper, leave it poking up, and if one were to happen to generate enough electricity bodily, and complete the circuit, one might have a heat flashpoint. Much like an old car cigarette lighter.
[/QUOTE]
So… he might be secretly concealing a gadget inside the newspaper, which he then activates using his genuine bioelectric power?
But what would be the point? If he can generate electricity, then why would he use misdirection to give the impression that he can ignite paper when he actually can’t? If he can heat up a wire to the point where it sets paper on fire, there’s your demonstration right there. “I’m going to use my power to heat up this wire until it becomes hot enough to set paper on fire.” No need to conceal anything.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
So… he might be secretly concealing a gadget inside the newspaper, which he then activates using his genuine bioelectric power?
But what would be the point? If he can generate electricity, then why would he use misdirection to give the impression that he can ignite paper when he actually can’t? If he can heat up a wire to the point where it sets paper on fire, there’s your demonstration right there. “I’m going to use my power to heat up this wire until it becomes hot enough to set paper on fire.” No need to conceal anything.
[/QUOTE]
I’m just sussing it out. Concealment doesn’t always infer deceit. I’m just offering possibilities, I have no horse in this race. I don’t believe John intends any harm, though. I believe that whatever is happening is genuine. I mean, electrical charges are often applied in modern acupuncture treatments, that do correlate with a statistical therapeutic effect.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
If he can generate electricity, then why would he use misdirection to give the impression that he can ignite paper when he actually can’t?
[/QUOTE]
For the same reason that Uri Geller doesn’t admit he’s a talented magician and instead claims he has supernatural powers. To impress his audience/customers.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
“I’m going to use my power to heat up this wire until it becomes hot enough to set paper on fire.” No need to conceal anything.
[/QUOTE]
Well, he did light the LED in the contemporary footage. That’s the trick that you are talking about. But, is it a better demonstration than setting a fire? Probably not, aesthetically.
I have a pretty interesting story that sort of relates to all this.
When I was a kid I used to watch “That’s Incredible!” on TV. One episode I remember was one where they had a guy who could manipulate and control electricity, supposedly. In one section of his piece they showed him roasting wieners with electricity while holding the bare wires. Something like that. Maybe some of you remember that very episode.
Anyway, fast-forward to around 1992 and who should be living next to a friend of mine but this very same man. He was much older and basically penniless. What fortunes he had made in Hollywood where long gone.
So one day he was over at my friends house and we were all drinking beer and he strarted to talk about his past and his supernatural skills. As we went on he decided to run home and grab a video tape of his TV appearance. After we watched the tape we got excited and we were like, “Show us man!”. He agreed, and my friend grabbed his old junky toaster, cut the cord off, pulled apart the two wires, stripped the ends exposing the bare copper, and handed this to the old guy.
He got us, about five or six people, to stand in a line and hold hands. He stood on the end holding the end person’s hand with one hand and one of the copper wires in the other. The person on the other end grabbed the other copper wire. So the circuit went copper, old guy, chain of people, other copper wire.
We then had a person outside of the chain plug the wires into the wall…and… nothing. Then he said, “Ok, I’m going to turn it up a bit.” and this gradually increasing current began to flow through us. It ramped up gradually, more and more, until people started getting nervous and would shout “Ok, ok, enough!!”, with a nervous laugh. He would then ramp it down to nothing and back up again, at our request. The current would turn off and and on, or ramp up and down entirely at our request. I got the impression that he had complete fine control of the electricity and could release the flood gates at will if he had wanted, perhaps blowing the breaker or frying us.
For his next act, he filled the stainless steel kitchen sink with water and someone grabbed a standard light bulb. I held the light bulb under water with one hand and I had one copper wire end in the other. He held the other copper wire in one hand and I can’t remember what he did with the other hand. I can’t remember if it was in the water and, if so, if it was touching the bulb. This was 15 years ago… But anyway, basically what happened next was that while I was holding the bulb under water he was saying, “On. Off. On. Off”, etc, all while the buld was turning off and on under water while I was holding it. I could feel the electricity running through me and the water around the bulb was beginning to boil of a sort, but it wasn’t hot.
So, suffice it to say, I was amazed.
Now, I’m as skeptical as they come. I have a scientific mind. I don’t believe in ghosts, ufo’s, astrology, religion, curses, superstitions, etc. If you are a scientist, I’m your man in the field. So, amazed, I asked this guy, “How do you do that???” He wouldn’t talk about it at first. “I don’t know.” he would say. But I kept bugging him. I wanted to know. If this dude was on the edge of a science we don’t understand- damn, I sure as hell want to know about it, how it works. So I kept bugging him and he paused to explore his thoughts and said, “I see two horizontal red lines and I bring them together.” Well, that sounded intriguing and I pressed him for more but he wouldn’t have it.
So what does it all mean? I don’t really know. Being of skeptical and rational mind, I searched rationally for the trick, but I couldn’t find one. It was plainly obvious that he was concealing nothing in his hands. He was wearing jeans and a T-shirt and I can’t really see where he might have concealed an electronic contraption of some kind. And if he had been able to do so, how would such a contraption work? In the end, I have no explanation.
This guy was weird. Once, he invited us over to his home next door and as we walked through it I had a look around. The entire house was filled with open-topped cardboard boxes full of small machine parts. Hundreds of boxes, some as big as a cubic meter, full of gear assemblies, shafts, wires, gaskets, carburetors, etc. I remember one box the size of an arm chair that had nothing but gears in it. Literally thousands of little gears ranging in size from wristwatch gears up to the size of an open hand. I was amazed. Also, on his back, he had a sort of fungus growing in a patch the size of a dinner plate (gross!). It was rough and the colour was that of copper that had turned green, like a courthouse dome. Who was this guy?
[QUOTE=Shamozzle]
…and this gradually increasing current began to flow through us.
[/QUOTE]
Please explain.
You felt it? What did you feel, exactly?
You saw it? What did you see?
The toaster started working?
Describe, in detail.
[QUOTE=GuanoLad]
Please explain.
You felt it? What did you feel, exactly?
You saw it? What did you see?
The toaster started working?
Describe, in detail.
[/QUOTE]
It felt exactly like electricity: a tingling sensation that becomes painful if it is strong enough.
What do you mean by ‘What did you see?’. I can elaborate on a specific part of my description, if you like.
The toaster was, well, toast. The cord had been cut off and it was out of the picture.
I think your post should have a disclaimer…
Danger!:Never plug yourself into the wall. It will result in immediate death.
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
I think your post should have a disclaimer…
Danger!:Never plug yourself into the wall. It will result in immediate death.
[/QUOTE]
One would think, yes. But not with that guy around, whatever the mechanism.
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
I believe this is the footage in question, and the Chi Master’s name is John Chang.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, that’s what I was remembering!
No Michael Palin, of course, but a British tourist with a film crew…and that’s the footage that stuck in my memory.
Thanks, devilsknew!
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
I wonder how he did it? It seemed as if the paper ignited from the bottom, and not from his hands. Maybe some glycerine and potassium permanganate (on different hands) that got mixed in the paper? (But then, it would be mixed on his hands as well…)
[/QUOTE]
The big tell for me, is when DJ holds up the newspaper for examination and tears along the 4 creases in that video, prior to wadding and igniting.. It’s a sign of a sleight.
He crumples up the paper in a very unusual way - as if he’s forming a crude cup to contain something in the middle of it.
He presses down, hard, on the bundle of paper after putting it on the floor - as if he’s trying to break or crush something concealed in the middle of the bundle.
He then watches it intently - and you can tell he’s reacting to something he has seen, then doing the shaky-hand force gesture.
Really, it’s not even a very impressive example of trickery.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
He crumples up the paper in a very unusual way - as if he’s forming a crude cup to contain something in the middle of it.
He presses down, hard, on the bundle of paper after putting it on the floor - as if he’s trying to break or crush something concealed in the middle of the bundle.
He then watches it intently - and you can tell he’s reacting to something he has seen, then doing the shaky-hand force gesture.
Really, it’s not even a very impressive example of trickery.
[/QUOTE]
I disagree, with pretty much all of your observations.
The crumpling is deliberate, but it’s to facilitate airflow…not “cupping”.
He barely makes contact with the paper…there is no breaking, and the fire starts after he touches it.
I believe it is a very good demonstration, with minimal trickery. That’s why it is impressive.
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
I disagree, with pretty much all of your observations.
The crumpling is deliberate, but it’s to facilitate airflow…not “cupping”.
He barely makes contact with the paper…there is no breaking, and the fire starts after he touches it.
I believe it is a very good demonstration, with minimal trickery. That’s why it is impressive.
[/QUOTE]
Are you sure you’re watching the same video as me?
(I guess you ought to be, as it’s the one you linked in post #12…)
02:41 to 02:45 - we see him very carefully constructing a container made from crumpled paper - he’s gathering up the edges and corners, handling it as if he’s trying to be careful not to spill or tip out something inside it.
02:47 - 02:49 - We see him press down very firmly on the centre of the bundle, twice
02:53 - 02:58 - He’s watching the bundle very intently (only taking his eyes off it for the briefest of moments to look up at the reporter)
02:59 - He starts looking as though he’s exerting himself
03:01 - The paper flares up
Now of course this is an interpretation (as indeed is your assertion that he’s arranging the paper that way for airflow, even though that doesn’t really make sense), but I think it’s pretty plain what’s happening here:
He tears a piece of paper
He forms it into a cupped, crumpled ball - in the process, depositing a capsule of some incendiary chemical in the middle
He presses down on the bundle, rupturing the capsule, initiating the reaction
He must then watch intently so that he can appear to be making the fire start, the moment that the reaction takes off completely.
Or maybe he has electric eel guts. Which is more likely?
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
Are you sure you’re watching the same video as me?
(I guess you ought to be, as it’s the one you linked in post #12…)
02:41 to 02:45 - we see him very carefully constructing a container made from crumpled paper - he’s gathering up the edges and corners, handling it as if he’s trying to be careful not to spill or tip out something inside it.
02:47 - 02:49 - We see him press down very firmly on the centre of the bundle, twice
[/QUOTE]
I believe it is arrangement for concealment as well, I just disagree with you as to what he is concealing. I believe it is arrangement of a fine wire, and that he is compacting and bending the wire so that it is sure to make contact with the paper as well as preset the position and attenuate the wire for later contact. I believe he is also arranging the paper for maximum airflow and combustion as well.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
02:53 - 02:58 - He’s watching the bundle very intently (only taking his eyes off it for the briefest of moments to look up at the reporter)
02:59 - He starts looking as though he’s exerting himself
03:01 - The paper flares up
[/QUOTE]
03:00- He makes contact with the top of paper and compresses it slightly, presumably completing the circuit with the wire.
You are missing the most important part.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
Now of course this is an interpretation (as indeed is your assertion that he’s arranging the paper that way for airflow, even though that doesn’t really make sense), but I think it’s pretty plain what’s happening here:
He tears a piece of paper
He forms it into a cupped, crumpled ball - in the process, depositing a capsule of some incendiary chemical in the middle
He presses down on the bundle, rupturing the capsule, initiating the reaction
He must then watch intently so that he can appear to be making the fire start, the moment that the reaction takes off completely.
Or maybe he has electric eel guts. Which is more likely?
[/QUOTE]
I believe that if one did have a mechanism, either mechanical or biological for generating a significant amount of electricity bodily, the much easier and more plausible effect in preperation and concealment, would be the palming of a thin pliable wire. I believe yours is the more complicated scenario.
I’m saying that by the time he does this, the paper has already started to ignite - it’s just not quite apparent to the camera. His whole demeanour at this point is one of someone who is waiting to react quickly to something he sees, giving the impression that his action is the initiator.
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
I believe yours is the more complicated scenario.
[/QUOTE]
Only because you’ve handwaved away the complex parts of yours.