Which regime is more repressive: Iran or Saudi Arabia?

[BrainGlutton]

From this recent The Nation article by Katha Politt on the Bush Admin’s misapplication of the term “Islamo-Fascism” to al-Qaeda, etc.:

Second, and more important, “Islamo-fascism” conflates a wide variety of disparate states, movements and organizations as if, like the fascists, they all want similar things and are working together to achieve them. Neocons have called Saddam Hussein and the Baathists of Syria Islamo-fascists, but these relatively secular nationalist tyrants have nothing in common with shadowy, stateless, fundamentalist Al Qaeda–as even Bush now acknowledges–or with the Taliban, who want to return Afghanistan to the seventh century; and the Taliban aren’t much like Iran, which is different from (and somewhat less repressive than) Saudi Arabia–whoops, our big ally in the Middle East! Who are the “Islamo-fascists” in Saudi Arabia–the current regime or its religious-fanatical opponents? It was under the actually existing US-supported government that female students were forced back into their burning school rather than be allowed to escape unveiled. Under that government people are lashed and beheaded, women can’t vote or drive, non-Muslim worship is forbidden, a religious dress code is enforced by the state through violence and Wahhabism–the “Islamo-fascist” denomination–is exported around the globe.

Is SA a significantly more repressive state than Iran? It’s certainly plausible, based on what I know of both regimes (Iran at least does have natrional elections – not entirely free, but not entirely sham either); but it occurs to me that might be a controversial position.

If it’s true, what implications does that have for our foreign policy, ostensibly supporting liberal democracy in the MENA?

[clairobscur]

I’m certainly of the opinion that Saudi Arabia is significantly worse than Iran. It’s an autocracy supporting a version of Islam more fundamentalist and backward than Iran’s. As you metionned, Iranians have political rights, even though they’re limited in their choices. Women also have way, way more rights than in Saudi Arabia. In Iran, a woman can embrace a professional career, become an engineer, a scientist, whatever. In SA, she famously can’t even drive a car.

[clairobscur]

Just to add that if I had the choice between becoming a Saudi or an Iranian citizen, I would choose Iran any day. Saudi Arabia is also on my very short list (less than a handful) of countries that I would absolutely refuse to even visit, on the basis of their political regime.

[shizaru]

I don’t want to visit any place in the middle east. To be honest, I can’t remember hearing one positive thing about the entire region.

[jjimm]

@shizaru

I don’t want to visit any place in the middle east. To be honest, I can’t remember hearing one positive thing about the entire region.

You haven’t been listening then. Dubai is a fantastic destination. Abu Dhabi and the other Emirates too. Bahrain is party island, relatively speaking. Until a few months ago, Lebanon. I have a friend who just came back from Syria and had a great time (she was one of two women, travelling alone). Egypt is a massive holiday destination for Europe. And Israel is very nice, from what I’ve heard. [/hijack]

[clairobscur]

@clairobscur

Just to add that if I had the choice between becoming a Saudi or an Iranian citizen, I would choose Iran any day. Saudi Arabia is also on my very short list (less than a handful) of countries that I would absolutely refuse to even visit, on the basis of their political regime.

The middle-east, given its long and rich history, is filled with all sorts of historical treasures : sites, buildings and cities of major importance. If it were more stable, it could become one of the most attractive destination for tourism.

[Tamerlane]

@clairobscur

I’m certainly of the opinion that Saudi Arabia is significantly worse than Iran. It’s an autocracy supporting a version of Islam more fundamentalist and backward than Iran’s. As you metionned, Iranians have political rights, even though they’re limited in their choices. Women also have way, way more rights than in Saudi Arabia. In Iran, a woman can embrace a professional career, become an engineer, a scientist, whatever. In SA, she famously can’t even drive a car.

Agreed. Iran is bad - Saudi Arabia and the former Taliban regime are/were significantly worse.

• Tamerlane

[The_Hamster_King]

@clairobscur

In Iran, a woman can embrace a professional career, become an engineer, a scientist, whatever. In SA, she famously can’t even drive a car.

Yes. Just today at the swimming pool my wife and I were chatting with the 30-something mother of one my daughter’s friends. She emigrated from Iran to the United States seven years ago. She has a B.S. in physics from an Iranian university and is currently deciding whether to go to graduate school in physics or study radiology. Afterwards my wife and I commented to each other about how you probably wouldn’t hear a story like that from a woman who had come here from Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

[Little_Nemo]

Another vote that Saudi Arabia is more repressive than Iran. While both countries have state-supported religious oppression, in Iran there is some degree of political freedom.