Which website building services meet these criteria?

Factual Questions
21

I’m using a free anti-spam plugin. We’ll see how it goes (I just set up my 1st and only Wordpress.org website this month).

If you go the wordpress.org route, I repeat my recommendation for Andy Williams’ Wordpress for Beginners 2024. Some of the interface has changed since he wrote the workbook, but it isn’t hard to make adjustments. He recommends bluehost and a set of free plugins, and has vids that walk you through the process.

I thought that Wordpress.org had some legitimate gripes with the RV park, but that their response was over the top when they yanked services away and started affecting individual RV owners who had nothing to do with the problem. That part has been resolved, but it’s worrisome and casts doubt on wordpress.org management.

22

I use Akismet for anti-spam on WordPress. Free and works fine. There’s a paid commercial version if you need it.

23

It looks like my site will require codes. In your opinion, what’s the best language for the purpose? So I can ask ppl for that skill.

Analogies like this are super helpful for newbies to grasp a field with steep curve and many strange techy words, thx!

Is Java same as Javascript? Haven’t browsers blocked those ‘java’ apps for several years now?

Did you mean “wordpress.com site” specifically? Is my understanding correct that:

  • wp.com site is RV. You can buy and then paint it or change some furniture.
  • self-built site is, well, like this car.
  • wp.org site is a RV chassis. You have the most important part - the engine - installed already. You can code your seats and glass and turbo sound in.

From the discussion, I figure the best way for now is to just explore my wpcom site in my free time. When the war b/w them and WPE settles, then resurface here and reevaluate / ask better questions.

24

Mmm… if we want to keep going with the mobile home analogy, maybe it’s something like this:

  • Wordpress.org (or technically, Wordpress the software) is a cheap, barebones RV.
  • Wordpress.com is actually the company that makes that same RV. But they also run a RV park where they charge you to host that RV, and that’s how they make most of their money. It’s still the same RV underneath as the .org one, but the .com will throw in a few semi-useful add-ons if you rent with them, especially if you get one of their nicer lots.
  • Other hosting companies (“RV parks” in our analogy) offer similar experiences, some much worse, some much better, all different in some minor way, but all ultimately hosting the same base model “Wordpress.org RV”. You can take your Wordpress.org RV to Wordpress.com or anywhere else.

In less metaphorical terms (only because it might actually be clearer this way rather than infinitely stretching the analogy, lol):

  • “Wordpress” is the name of the website software that we’re talking about. It’s what we call a “web framework” (a generic term) or a “content management system” (a specific kind of framework that lets people easily write & edit pages and posts). There are many other frameworks & content management systems.
  • This software is made by a company called Automattic
  • Automattic gives the base Wordpress software away for free on a website called Wordpress.org. Giving away software like this is a common practice on the web; it’s called “open source” and the idea is just that the company gets to benefit from free community labor, while the community also gets to benefit from free software. This is how companies like WPEngine are able to run the same software (anyone can).
  • But Automattic needs to make money somehow, too. They do this the same way: By hosting that same Wordpress software on a service they confusingly call Wordpress.com (they own the trademark, so they’re the only ones who can do that).
  • “Hosting” is just what you call it when you pay a company to, well, host your website on your behalf, on their big powerful computers and fast networks. There are many Wordpress hosts out there, but Wordpress.com is the only “official” one from Automattic, the company that makes the Wordpress software.

In summary: Automattic makes software called Wordpress and also sells paid hosting for it on Wordpress.com

For what it’s worth, you don’t have to go out of your way to avoid PHP. It has its flaws, but there are SO MANY PHP coders out there that it (especially with Wordpress) is the best way you can ensure both affordable help and long-term support.

Although I don’t work in PHP anymore, it’s how I (and many other web developers) started our careers. We all have some love-hate relationship with it. PHP has gotten a lot better since the 90s/2000s, too, and these days Wordpress isn’t quite the nightmare it used to be.

(Drupal, on the other hand… vomit :face_vomiting:)

Javascript is NOT Java. They actually are not related at all. The similarity in names was actually a historical attempt at deliberate confusion. Java was really popular in the 90s, and this old browser company called Netscape was afraid it would be left behind, so hired an engineer to make a programming language for their browser. They called it LiveScript at first but then deliberately renamed it to Javascript, just to ride on Java’s coattails as a marketing ploy. Seriously. It sounds ridiculous but that’s what happened: JavaScript - Wikipedia

As an aside: That same guy who made Javascript also went on to make Firefox, and now the Brave browser.

You’re right that browsers don’t normally run Java anymore.

Javascript, however, is one of the major languages of the web, along with HTML and CSS. Just about every site, including this one, uses some Javascript.

PHP is a HTML pre-processor… which is geekspeak for “programming language that outputs HTML”. Javascript can do most of what PHP can do these days, though that’s not its primary (or at least original) purpose.

So if you really want someone to custom-code your website, on the cheap side, you can probably hire a junior or foreign Wordpress developer for $20/hr.

On the more expensive side, a Javascript frontend developer could cost you anywhere from that same amount to $200+/hr. The good ones can get paid $100-200k a year to make websites. You don’t need someone like that.

If you decide to use Wordpress, honestly, any run-of-the-mill Wordpress dev can set up a personal site just fine. You can too. Just pay a service, pick a template, add a page builder if you want, and you’re halfway there. You don’t necessarily need to hire anyone or code anything unless you need special functionality that’s not already available on the Wordpress marketplace.

If you really want to hire someone, you specifically need an affordable “web developer”, probably someone who knows Wordpress. They are also called Wordpress developers/agencies. Don’t worry about the underlying languages that power Wordpress. Anybody who knows Wordpress will know PHP, HTML, CSS, and maybe some JS too, but that’s for them to worry about.

But this is very much one of those situations where you get what you pay for; hire someone locally with good reviews, or ask around by word of mouth. If you hire a cheap rando online and don’t have the background to evaluate their skill, you’re probably going to get ripped off.

25

Unfortunately, PHP.

It is horrible, but by far the most commomly known “backend” language. Even people like me who hate it and prefer to use “real” languages know it.

It may need Javascript, but that is less horrible, and also extremely well known. It can even be fun, unlike PHP.

There is a 3rd language (It is not a fully fledged language, more of a way to set colors and layout) called CSS, which you may need to dabble in.

But in any cheap hosting you can expect PHP. Though, actually touching any of the PHP, Javascript or CSS is incredibly unlikely for any beginner. If you do, I strongly suggest backing up before you make any changes. Strongly.

26

Oh, god, yes. Avoud Drupal at all costs!

27

If you’ve settled on Wordpress, the hardest part of that question (which technology to use) is now answered! Good job. Give yourself a pat on the back… the SDMB can make a rabbit hole out of anything :slight_smile: There’s no perfect web software out there, but Wordpress will do the job.

As you explore Wordpress (.com or .org, it’s largely similar), something that would be helpful is further nailing down your requirements (what exactly does the carousel need to do? do any of the existing plugins on the Wordpress marketplace fit the bill, or do you need something truly custom?). The more specific you can be, the better: e.g. I need it to do this, not that, and I plan to have X items that will need to be swapped out every Y days. What other features do you need? Start making a list.

And having a budget that isn’t zero would really help nail down your range of options, too. “Free” typically means “you have to set everything up for yourself or hire someone to do it, and then hire someone to maintain it over time”. But paying someone to do this will usually end up costing you way, way more than just paying a hosting or template provider directly (because the providers can enjoy the economies of scale using the same software to serve thousands or millions of customers, vs an individual web dev custom coding something for just you).

It’s a continuum between time and money. If you spend $0, expect to spend many hours learning and setting things up yourself for the first time, then a few hours every quarter just to maintain it. It will probably go down frequently and be slow and suffer from security issues. If you spend $10/mo, most of those issues go away and you can expect the website to stay up pretty much indefinitely as long as you keep paying (years at least, if not decades). If you spend $50/mo, you get that and maybe extra features, backups, security, speed, etc. I wouldn’t spend any more than that on a basic personal site.

PS If you WANT to DIY this just to learn or as a side hobby, that’s fine… but if that’s the priority, let us know, because it has a different set of considerations (what would help facilitate learning, vs what would be cheap and low-maintenace).

28

Wordpress.com offers a free plan. For $48 per year you get a free domain for a year, which you don’t want because you want your domain register to be different than your website hoster. Domain register gives you your web address. Website hoster gives you server space to deliver your content. Free includes automatic ads from Automattic. $50 plan has no ads, and dozens of theme choices. Dozens!

$100 per year plan gives all premium themes (which are free elsewhere) and custom fonts and colors. So I wonder about the themes at the $50 level.

$300 per year plan offers plugins. Wait what? No plugins before that? eCommerce available at $540 per year.

I got put off by this pricing structure, but I was willing to spend some time learning the ropes, wisely or not. But for those pressed for time, maybe the free or $50 plan makes some sense, provided you prepare for spending $300 per year eventually. Plus whatever for the domain.

For my DIY project, I have a $17 per year domain from Namecheap, a $144 per year plan from Bluehost, and $12 per year email with the domain. For better or worse. Those are what I’ll pay eventually: the first year or three are discounted. So I guess that totals to $173 per year. I tossed in a one time payment of $25 or so to get the deluxe theme by the theme provider.

Some theme providers (looking at you Superb) make some design choices that I found highly dubious once I dug in a little. Maybe that was to encourage an upgrade, not sure.

29

It can be even cheaper, but be aware, you lose what you don’t pay for… though, in truth, you probably don’t need what you don’t know about.

I run a virtual server to host all my websites, around 10 of them. I pay in ZAR, so my yearly costs are around USD$120 at a rough estimate. Total.

My experience is that all domains come with email, I’ve not seen that as an added extra, but it could easily be. If it was, I would switch hosts.

(Note: my websites are super-low traffic vanity sites. The non Wordpress ones have no database. It is cheaper this way)

30

Bluehost charges $25 extra per year for email. TBH, I probably would go with that if I was doing it again. I ended using Zoho’s less expensive but more fiddly services, because for better or worse I wanted to separate out email, registration, and hosting.

https://www.bluehost.com/email/professional-email

I went with Bluehost and Namecheap because the author of my workbook used them in his tutorial. I am confident that there are better deals, but I’m a newbie at this. My point I think was to contrast $120/$180 per year with $300 per year at Wordpress.com. The difference is not overwhelming, especially IF the latter allows you to avoid hiring an ongoing web consultant. Big if.

31

Question. How should I draft posts and pages in Wordpress? I have a minimalist blog and have decided that Gutenberg isn’t a good fit: the Classic Editor plugin is fine.

Maybe I should use it exclusively. You can compose with the visual tab, the text tab, or both. The webpage will eventually have different code, affected by the theme et al. I’d like to write drafts offline, but this instinct may be misguided. The text tab is using .html, right? So I could compose in .html using VScode then paste it in, right? Or no? That would give me options for adjusting screen font sizes and the like. What processes do others use? Maybe I’m overcomplicating things: I’m skilled at that.

32

Ok, offline blog editors exist. All of them are abandonware AFAICT. That doesn’t mean they don’t work though. Examples include Open Live Writer (last release May 2017), a fork off of MS Windows Live Writer (last release April 2014), BlogDesk (last release Feb 2009), and BlogJet (last updated 2013).

Over at Reddit, /wordpress surveyed its membership on how they create blog posts. 69 responded:

30  WordPress Gutenberg editor

23  WordPress Classic editor

6  Google Docs and copy to WP

2  Write in markdown and copy to WP

8  Other editors

Woah: This guide says that pasting from MS Word into the Classic Editor works well and that pasting from Google Docs sometimes introduces formating errors that you will want to edit in the text tab (html). I didn’t see that coming. So I guess I’ll be composing in MS Word. Maybe I’ll experiment with LibreOffice afterwards.

Other options are VScode or the Wordpress App for composing offline.

33

Since you’re on a Markdown kick in the other thread, I should note that you can also compose your drafts in Markdown (maybe inside Obsidian) and then easily paste that into Wordpress with the Jetpack plugin (which should be included with your wordpress.com hosting): Using Markdown in WordPress

That will help prevent any Word/GDoc formatting issues.

34

This… is bizarre. I host on extremely cheap services, and all, without fail, all include email as part of the package.

Some limit the number of email addresses, to like 5, but all provide email. I mean, just the standard (albeit out-dated) webmaster@somedomain.com has been a thing since, like, 1998.

(“Standard” as in “common”, as far as I know there is no RFC)

35

Debundling is a thing. The domain registrar gandi.net used to provide free email with their service, until they didn’t. Now they charge $60/yr for standard email.