Are you stating that catcalls and whistles from strangers are a little rude, but not that big of a deal, so it’s ok for men to do it–more socially awkward than wrong, and so women shouldn’t get so upset?
Are you stating that catcalls and whistles are horrible and threatening, but fundamentally unpreventable, because it’s from such a small group of die-hard assholes, so women need to learn to ignore it?
Are you stating that catcalls and whistles are part of a dynamic between women and men, and that women are complicit in that dynamic and need to change their own behavior to get it to stop, if they really dislike it?
I swear, we need to ban sarcasm in these threads because there is no statement so outlandish that someone else wouldn’t have said it in earnest.
I am really not being snarky. I can’t tell where you fall on this issue.
Neither can I. I haven’t joined this particular discussion because I have no idea what we are discussing. And all we seem to get in response is that it is not “that”. So what is it?
Nothing but “clothes communicate”? Because if that is absolutely all, you will need to explain how that is relevant to the thread.
Yes and no. I’m going to ignore the lecherous foreigners aspect of the video and say I generally found the entire thing relatable. It is very much worse in some places than others, but it happens everywhere. Even in the worst places, though, it isn’t constant, as in every second of being outdoors, you’re being shouted at. However, in the worst places, literally every time you go outside without a man it will happen at least once. Every single time. I live in a pretty sleepy neighborhood right now, so it doesn’t happen on a daily basis like it used to, but in other necks of the woods, street harassment is just the way it goes.
I nodded while cringing when the women discussed how maybe they should dress differently, or questioned whether they should wear dresses anymore, but still (despite whatever idiotic point stoplight is attempting to make about messaging) were victims of harassment even when they put on a sweater and jeans. There’s really nothing you can wear to make it stop happening. I’ve actually stopped guys and asked them point blank of street harassment ever works. Ever, even once. I have never gotten a yes or no answer, but I have been told what a bitch I was after asking! Of course it doesn’t work; the men in the video admitted it doesn’t work, so then why do they do it?
You just train yourself not to listen anymore. Like the lady said in her video (despite what **TriPolar **believes to be true), you’re sometimes called a whore or worse if you rebuff their advances, but whatever. It’s just part of the fun of being a woman. Yay!
Since we can’t get a straight answer as to why guys persist and what they hope to accomplish, I’m throwing in my two cents. My best guess is that some guys do it in order to gain the respect of their nearby male peers, a few particularly clueless or optimistic guys might be hoping to gain sexual intimacy, but I still haven’t pinned down the guys who do this while they are alone, or the men in that awful video. Those guys know they are deliberately spooking or intimidating us, right? That guys whistles in order to communicate “You can probably get laid whenever you want, can’t you, Bitch? I’m usually sexually frustrated so I’m going to get my jollies by making you nervous and slightly ashamed of having the audacity to be attractive in my presence without offering to service my needs. When you walk by I don’t see a fellow human being, I see walking pussy that I probably can’t have.”
I think some few men think it is genuinely flattering. As a high school teacher, I know we’ve had to take a few students aside and tell them that female teachers don’t want to be told they “look fine”, and it really was a revelation. There are households with women in them where women under 40 are valued pretty much entirely for their sex appeal. Boys who grow up in these households don’t know any other way to compliment a woman–they don’t know what else a woman might take pride in. These are generally boys that wouldn’t mind it if their mom got whistled at, btw–and often in parent conferences you get the sense that their mom doesn’t mind it either. She buys into the sexuality-as-primary-source-of-value as much as they do.
I think there are a lot fewer of these people than there used to be, and once you’re over 18 and in this day and age, it’s approaching willful ignorance and I’ve got no patience for it, but I do think that at times the behavior is rooted in genuine ignorance.
It’s like asking my dog why she ate a whole pack of butter when she knows that she is going to get in trouble and sick it up anyway.
Her response would probably be “uuh, dunno, butter! :D”.
My guess is the whistler is similar to that. Some may do it for their peers, some may actually think it is nice and complimentary, some may like the power. But most probably have very little thought at all, “uuh butter”.
That’s the most helpful read on this yet, thank you. And it’s a dismal truth, both for any women who believe their self-worth is how well they are received by men and for men who see no other value in women. And though I don’t risk my safety by confronting catcallers, I stand by my orginal stance either way, which is “fuck those guys!”.
Yeah. I’ve actually talked to some of the dumber guys I’ve known, and they seem to think we take their harassment (which they’re completely indiscriminate with, btw) as approval. Like in the video, the guys asked her if they didn’t hoot and make comments, wouldn’t she feel less attractive? :smack:
There are, of course, guys who know it’s rude and do it anyway because they’re giant assholes.
Need a short phrase that means “Look buddy, you’re an idiot if you think I brushed my hair and put on these jeans hopes of attracting the attention of a strange man I have no intention of interacting with. I don’t care what you think; you’re just some lout who lacks the good manners to use words instead of calling me like a dog.”
It’s a bit random, but bear with me. The guy made the ad to attract female customers. He is an obvious creep, but you can also tell he means well. He seems to genuinely think that this is what women want, and they will flock to him with their cars after this ad.
He seems just the type who would whistle, thinking it was a kind compliment. He would genuinely mean well, and completely creep women out. (OK, yeah, it’s still random. But I just saw this, and it seemed to tie in.)
Well, catcalls never bothered me. I was always like, yeah, whatever buddy, who cares.
Unless I was in a bad mood, in which case I might give bad attitude. Been called a bitch, fat bitch, shit like that, but again, I never gave a shit. Some catcalls I even enjoyed.
But, god as my witness…if I EVER had to endure even a fraction of the suffocating, crowding, ugly constant level of harassment that the video portrays…even a quarter of that level…I would absolutely want to freak out. I would feel like I can’t be free and just be…free!!! I would feel trapped. It was a disturbing video, and I honestly didn’t realize that anything even resembling that was an issue. I had a very different picture, even adjusting for my weight and age and appearance…I had a very different picture.
I’m kind of surprised that a couple of women have posted that they do feel it is a compliment to be whistled at. That fact has to be encouraging some of the men who do this kind of thing.
This site might have already been mentioned, but Hollaback is a website that pushes back on catcallers: http://www.ihollaback.org/
Catcalls bothered me. I mean, if you have really good self-esteem, maybe they don’t bother you, but I didn’t through most of my teens and twenties, and they all bothered me.
Some guys have given up the hope that a woman might be attacted to them in the normal way, so they go ahead and act like an asshole. Why not? They are basically saying ‘what the fuck’ so far as the opposite sex goes and turning off the filter between their brain and their mouth.
Sometimes those guys get the girl and that confirms their method for them. An asshole friend of mine would yell out the window at random attractive women. It was embarrassing to even be in the car with him. This was in my younger days, before I had a car, or any idea what woman like or don’t like. Even then it seemed wrong but a surprising number of women responded by coming over and talking to him so it was pointless to tell him it was rude or that it didn’t work. In his eyes I was the chump who didn’t know how to talk to women.
my answer sexual objectification of the intended target. That answer seems concise and clear and have already stated as such.
it is okay to sexually objectify someone/anyone. In this context, a stranger on the street, whistling at woman passing by on wall street, main street, third street or any street . No
It is okay then to follow up with rude comments further provoking an interaction with someone who the whistler just objectified. No.
why do some men do this? I am not one of those men so I can only guess at what they are thinking. You are an object, exactly what object I am not sure but would think a sexual one. They do not care about your personality, your views, your thoughts, your sense of humor, in some cases they do not care if you are in a sundress, a nightdress, dirty sweats, clean sweats, hair done up to Jesus or done down to hell. Beyond that perhaps they have criminal tendencies, are mentally ill, off meds, to many meds, wrong kind of meds, ignorance, apathy, poor male role model, poor female role model or have done it before and have had success so they continue the odds are in their favor if all they are after is that 1 out of a 100/
Do I think it puts women in a difficult situation? from the responses , yes. In my circle of squirrel carving, moonshine drinking, porch sitting down in the Hollow friends the women have never mentioned it to us and in between carvings when asked their responses were middle of the road. Small subset of women I know but as of yet I have three sources of information, this string of post and the 6 women in our circle and what I think is right and wrong.
Why don’t men whistle at women when they are escorted by a male? it shatters the guy code, same reason in most circumstances a woman in a bar engaged in conversation with a male will not be approached by a male stranger. Even guys that are douche bags adhere to many guy codes.
Do I feel empathy for those of you who have expressed how it effects you? Yes, to the point if I witnessed said situation and depending upon the circumstances and environment might intervene and offer some friendly guidance to the whistler. Even to the point of being told off by you for sticking my nose in your bidness.
Do you know now how I feel about this subject? gosh I hope so.
Bull. I don’t see any reason to pretend that guys sense a moral obligation to their fellow man when the same guys display zero moral obligation to non-male human beings. They don’t do it to escorted women because they don’t want their asses beat, a fact which indicates they have a very clear understanding of how offensive the practice is.
my answer sexual objectification of the intended target. That answer seems concise and clear and have already stated as such.
it is okay to sexually objectify someone/anyone. In this context, a stranger on the street, whistling at woman passing by on wall street, main street, third street or any street . No
It is okay then to follow up with rude comments further provoking an interaction with someone who the whistler just objectified. No.
why do some men do this? I am not one of those men so I can only guess at what they are thinking. You are an object, exactly what object I am not sure but would think a sexual one. They do not care about your personality, your views, your thoughts, your sense of humor, in some cases they do not care if you are in a sundress, a nightdress, dirty sweats, clean sweats, hair done up to Jesus or done down to hell. Beyond that perhaps they have criminal tendencies, are mentally ill, off meds, to many meds, wrong kind of meds, ignorance, apathy, poor male role model, poor female role model.
Do I think it puts women in a difficult situation? from the responses , yes. In my circle of squirrel carving, moonshine drinking, porch sitting down in the Hollow friends the women have never mentioned it to us and in between carvings when asked their responses were middle of the road. Small subset of women I know but as of yet I have three sources of information, this string of post and the 6 women in our circle and what I think is right and wrong.
Why don’t men whistle at women when they are escorted by a male? it shatters the guy code, same reason in most circumstances a woman in a bar engaged in conversation with a male will not be approached by a male stranger. Even guys that are douche bags adhere to many guy codes.
Do I feel empathy for those of you who have expressed how it effects you? Yes, to the point if I witnessed said situation and depending upon the circumstances and environment might intervene and offer some friendly guidance to the whistler. Even to the point of being told off by you for sticking my nose in your bidness.
Do you know now how I feel about this subject? gosh I hope so.