White Nationalism, Part II

[Liberal]

Agis wrote:

Exceptions, rather than discredit, work to prove the Rule. “Heretics” like Gilad or a “do-gooders” like Traubman, only serve as miniscule counter-points to a general mindset.

Well then, by your own assertion, because you and Sionnach are “exceptions”, you prove that White Nationalism is in general a hate-filled organization intent upon violence, intolerance, and wholesale disrespect for anyone it doesn’t perceive as “white”.

Do I need to embarrass you by reprinting here some quotes from your board, or will you concede the point?

[minty_green]

Just wanted to provide a concrete example of something I said earlier regarding the white supremacists’ favorite example of media bias against white people:

*Originally posted by minty green *
Halogen, your example of the Carr brothers sucks . . . Meanwhile, dozens and dozens of trials for multiple murders occur every year in this country, and nearly all of them get pretty much what the Carr brothers trial has received: Significant local media coverage, and minor national coverage. So what’s the disparate treatment you think you’ve identified?

Here’s the perfect example of that notion. A guy in Kansas used the Internet to find women who wanted to be his sex slaves, then killed them, chopped up their bodies, and dumped them in barrels. They found a total of five bodies, so he’s actually one higher than the Carr brothers, plus he’s got the freaky sex thing going on too. And what’s the result of all that in the media?

Significant local media coverage, and minor national coverage, of course.

[Super_Gnat]

*Originally posted by Veritas *
**
You need to catch up on your reading. Evolutionary biologists recognize that conflict and competition occur at all levels of selection, including within the human body. Natural selection occurs within organisms. Some of the best-studied examples are genes that break the rule of meiosis by occurring in more than 50% of the gametes, a process known as “meiotic drive”. See D.S. Wilson’s “Unto Others” at p. 87 et seq. **

The hell?? What does this have to do with anything? If it was proven (somehow) that white blood cells discriminate against red blood cells that still would have nothing to do with our discussion. The social dynamics of a social/religious/ethnic grouping has little or nothing to do with the amount of conflict and competition within a multicellular organism.

[Agis]

Well then, by your own assertion, because you and Sionnach are “exceptions”, you prove that White Nationalism is in general a hate-filled organization intent upon violence, intolerance, and wholesale disrespect for anyone it doesn’t perceive as “white”.

You are jumping off the handle here, Libertarian.

I do not believe that the “white” or Western worldview to be definitive for all Races. Whites are only a part of the human spectrum: a distinct part. A closed system within a multitude of systems. Systems that sometimes threaten to cancel eachother out.

;j

[Liberal]

Whites except for gay whites and Jewish whites, you mean, right? Are deformed whites and retarded whites excepted also? What about heterosexual toe sucking whites? They’re deviants, you know.

And for the record, if I jumped off the handle, then I jumped with you. It was your argument that I used. Fallacies are like that — they support purt near any argument.

[Darwins_Finch]

*Originally posted by Veritas *
**You need to catch up on your reading. Evolutionary biologists recognize that conflict and competition occur at all levels of selection, including within the human body. Natural selection occurs within organisms. Some of the best-studied examples are genes that break the rule of meiosis by occurring in more than 50% of the gametes, a process known as “meiotic drive”. See D.S. Wilson’s “Unto Others” at p. 87 et seq. **

And you need to try reading more than one author, since your comprehension of these topics is flawed. Meiotic drive is only relevant during gamete production (and even then can only act upon heterzygous alleles), and does not represent “conflict and competition…within the human body”. It does not affect the organism itself at all, but rather its offspring.

Which, of course, neglects the fact that this point, like so many others you have made, are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[Tars_Tarkas]

I love these “I read a book once” biologists!!
(not directed at Darwin’s Finch)

[Veritas]

Choosing individual statements from a limited selection of spokesman of the same factions within Judaism hardly makes a case for some worldwide conspiracy–and I have still seen no evidence for an attempt to destroy the “white” race (whatever that may be). (I have also seen no motive for such strange idea nor any reason to believe that if they could not pull it off in the past 2,500 years, we need to worry about it now.)

There is no allegation of a worldwide conspiracy. We are talking about a group that pursues its own interest without a secret agreement among the members of the group.

The putative attempt to destroy the “white race” is most evident in Jewish efforts to force non-white immigration on historically white countries. The motive is quite clearly stated by Earl Raab.
Expressing his satisfaction with the Census Bureau’s prediction that by the middle of the next century whites will become a minority, he writes, “The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country.” He is apparently prepared to displace our people and culture in order to prevent the theoretical rise of an anti-Jewish regime. Prof. Raab appears to see whites mainly as potential Nazis, and is willing to sacrifice their culture and national continuity in order to defuse an imagined threat to Jews.

[Darwins_Finch]

*Originally posted by Veritas *
Expressing his satisfaction with the Census Bureau’s prediction that by the middle of the next century whites will become a minority, he writes, "The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country."

And this demonstrates a Jewish attempt to destroy the “white race”…how? Here’s a hint where to look for your latest logical flaw: that “whites” may become a minority does not demonstrate a decrease in overall “white” population.

Surely you understand the difference between relative and absolute figures. Just to show me that I’m not overestimating you, how about providing some numbers regarding the absolute decline of the “white” population.

No, wait, why don’t I do your homework for you. Here are the projected U.S. Census Bureau figures for whites from the five year period between 2001 and 2005:

WHITE
                           July 1,   July 1,   July 1,   July 1,   July 1,
                              2001      2002      2003      2004      2005

Population, All Ages       227,883   229,501   231,101   232,673   234,221

Summary Indicators
Median Age..........          37.1      37.4      37.6      37.8      37.9
Mean Age............          37.6      37.7      37.8      38.0      38.1

Five-Year Age Groups
Under 5 years.......        14,933    14,931    14,948    14,983    15,041
5 to 9 years........        15,409    15,266    15,178    15,116    15,074
10 to 14 years......        15,864    16,078    16,196    16,213    16,077
15 to 19 years......        15,866    15,911    15,978    16,171    16,405
20 to 24 years......        15,113    15,438    15,726    15,865    15,965
25 to 29 years......        13,789    13,750    13,898    14,166    14,490
30 to 34 years......        15,750    15,597    15,354    15,003    14,642
35 to 39 years......        17,720    17,175    16,644    16,240    16,049
40 to 44 years......        18,891    18,929    18,864    18,749    18,447
45 to 49 years......        17,052    17,474    17,849    18,118    18,354
50 to 54 years......        15,422    15,365    15,637    16,012    16,429
55 to 59 years......        11,660    12,704    13,158    13,744    14,334
60 to 64 years......         9,390     9,715    10,281    10,664    11,022
65 to 69 years......         8,110     8,157     8,314     8,511     8,621
70 to 74 years......         7,694     7,579     7,414     7,288     7,270
75 to 79 years......         6,621     6,588     6,620     6,589     6,563
80 to 84 years......         4,594     4,732     4,819     4,903     4,972
85 to 89 years......         2,523     2,578     2,627     2,684     2,746
90 to 94 years......         1,095     1,131     1,172     1,212     1,257
95 to 99 years......           328       342       357       372       386
100 years and over..            59        62        67        72        78

Hmmm…I’m just not seeing any supposed decline. How about we look ten years into the future:

WHITE
                           July 1,   July 1,   July 1,   July 1,   July 1,
                              2011      2012      2013      2014      2015

Population, All Ages       243,273   244,796   246,339   247,897   249,468

Summary Indicators
Median Age..........          38.9      38.9      38.9      39.0      39.0
Mean Age............          39.0      39.1      39.2      39.3      39.5

Five-Year Age Groups
Under 5 years.......        15,770    15,937    16,104    16,262    16,414
5 to 9 years........        15,193    15,283    15,396    15,528    15,681
10 to 14 years......        15,475    15,459    15,464    15,490    15,541
15 to 19 years......        16,607    16,435    16,326    16,246    16,189
20 to 24 years......        16,739    16,926    17,014    17,008    16,855
25 to 29 years......        15,662    15,677    15,713    15,874    16,080
30 to 34 years......        15,231    15,517    15,771    15,891    15,965
35 to 39 years......        14,491    14,429    14,557    14,811    15,120
40 to 44 years......        16,240    16,071    15,811    15,445    15,074
45 to 49 years......        17,607    17,065    16,539    16,137    15,947
50 to 54 years......        18,305    18,336    18,271    18,156    17,861
55 to 59 years......        16,451    16,853    17,215    17,478    17,703
60 to 64 years......        14,513    14,465    14,728    15,086    15,482
65 to 69 years......        10,588    11,560    11,976    12,503    13,059
70 to 74 years......         7,927     8,210     8,711     9,050     9,360
75 to 79 years......         6,223     6,275     6,417     6,582     6,685
80 to 84 years......         4,979     4,923     4,840     4,780     4,797
85 to 89 years......         3,138     3,149     3,188     3,197     3,208
90 to 94 years......         1,518     1,583     1,628     1,674     1,714
95 to 99 years......           505       524       543       565       590
100 years and over..           112       119       127       136       145

Still not seeing it. Let’s go even further out:

WHITE
                        July 1,  July 1,  July 1,  July 1,  July 1,  July 1,
                           2075     2080     2085     2090     2095     2100

Population, All Ages    348,028  358,664  369,547  380,674  392,063  403,696

Summary Indicators
Median Age..........       39.7     39.8     40.0     40.3     40.5     40.7
Mean Age............       41.7     41.8     42.0     42.3     42.5     42.8

Five-Year Age Groups
Under 5 years.......     22,943   23,521   24,066   24,608   25,164   25,723
5 to 9 years........     22,406   23,025   23,599   24,141   24,681   25,236
10 to 14 years......     22,343   22,977   23,602   24,185   24,734   25,283
15 to 19 years......     22,648   23,243   23,888   24,528   25,124   25,686
20 to 24 years......     22,203   22,727   23,313   23,949   24,581   25,169
25 to 29 years......     21,103   21,599   22,096   22,654   23,261   23,864
30 to 34 years......     21,039   21,621   22,117   22,617   23,179   23,791
35 to 39 years......     20,715   21,392   21,977   22,476   22,981   23,548
40 to 44 years......     20,377   21,031   21,714   22,305   22,812   23,324
45 to 49 years......     19,651   20,107   20,751   21,427   22,013   22,516
50 to 54 years......     19,251   19,570   20,029   20,677   21,357   21,947
55 to 59 years......     18,668   19,073   19,399   19,865   20,520   21,206
60 to 64 years......     17,779   18,419   18,837   19,176   19,656   20,322
65 to 69 years......     16,489   17,342   17,992   18,427   18,788   19,287
70 to 74 years......     14,924   15,579   16,423   17,078   17,532   17,915
75 to 79 years......     13,676   13,954   14,621   15,470   16,144   16,630
80 to 84 years......     11,959   11,877   12,195   12,855   13,675   14,345
85 to 89 years......      8,806    9,303    9,333    9,675   10,288   11,033
90 to 94 years......      5,906    6,421    6,879    7,004    7,361    7,928
95 to 99 years......      3,207    3,668    4,081    4,461    4,639    4,972
100 years and over..      1,936    2,217    2,634    3,096    3,573    3,970

Nope. Still not gettin’ it. 98 years into the freakin’ future, and the white population is still increasing.

Which only goes to demonstrate that this “putative attempt to destroy the ‘white race’” is little more than fantasy.

Speaking of which:

He is apparently prepared to displace our people and culture in order to prevent the theoretical rise of an anti-Jewish regime. Prof. Raab appears to see whites mainly as potential Nazis, and is willing to sacrifice their culture and national continuity in order to defuse an imagined threat to Jews.

I have underlined two perceptions which are not supported by Earl Raab’s quote, but are rather based entirely on your own bias and fear. A less paranoid interpretation of Raab’s comments is that when whites represent a national minority, you and your neo-Nazi brethren (note that he refers specifically to your group, not all whites everywhere) can kiss any hope of ideological, or actual, success goodbye. Which sounds like a good thing to me.

[Jojo]

Hi, Veritas, welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board!

I just wanted to pop in to disect your last post.

There is no allegation of a worldwide conspiracy. We are talking about a group that pursues its own interest without a secret agreement among the members of the group.

All agreed there.

The putative attempt to destroy the “white race” is most evident in Jewish efforts to force non-white immigration on historically white countries. The motive is quite clearly stated by Earl Raab.

Yay. The evil Earl Raab. Who he?

Expressing his satisfaction with the Census Bureau’s prediction that by the middle of the next century whites will become a minority, he writes, "The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens.

yadda, yadda, yawn but then THIS!

We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country."

Well great, that’s good isn’t it? If we’ve reached the point where a Nazi-Aryan party can no longer take over?

He is apparently prepared to displace our people and culture in order to prevent the theoretical rise of an anti-Jewish regime.

Maybe he is, he sounds quite scary this Prof. Raab. So, just remind me, who is he again?

Prof. Raab appears to see whites mainly as potential Nazis, and is willing to sacrifice their culture and national continuity in order to defuse an imagined threat to Jews.

Woah.

I didn’t read that interpretation. Prof. Raab sounds like a lively person (although I’ve never heard of him), but being lively isn’t always a bad thing.

In any event, you are drawing the wrong conclusion from the evidence. Based on the quote you gave it’s possible he was just commenting neutrally on the current population stats.

You seem to have interpretated that comment as “gloating” in some way? Maybe you have paranoia problems?

You mentioned “imagined threats to jews” in your quote, I think you need to consider “imagined threats” generally.

[tomndebb]

There is no allegation of a worldwide conspiracy. We are talking about a group that pursues its own interest without a secret agreement among the members of the group.

The putative attempt to destroy the “white race” is most evident in Jewish efforts to force non-white immigration on historically white countries. The motive is quite clearly stated by Earl Raab.

Jewish “efforts” to “force” non-white immigration?

You provide a statement from a person who is personally relieved that he and his grandchildren will not be threatened by a Kristallnacht or a Final Solution in his own land as if it was a deliberate effort on the part of some shadowy, nebulous group–after acknowledging that there is not even a conspiracy to begin with–and we’re supposed to accept your claim that somehow there are “Jewish efforts” at work, here? Does this mean that if I express relief, based on census projections, that my children will not have to face discrimination in employment or the fear that their churches will be burnt down by zealous Right wing Christians, that I am guilty of trying to reduce the number of Right wing zealot Christians, despite having never interfered in their lives in any way?

You have still failed to provide any evidence that:

• there is an actual “Jewish” effort to do more than survive;*
• that Jews are not “white” (or that they see some other group as “white”);
• that there is any effort to destroy (or even harm) the “white” race;
• or that there even exists a “white” race (given that we still do not know who are members of it).

*There are many people who promote and who oppose immigration. I have seen no evidence that this is directed in any way by “Jewish” efforts–and pointing to some small handful of Jews who happen to be pro-immigration is not going to cut it if I can find any similar group of “white” Protestants or Catholics or non-belivers who are also working to the same goal.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

Who is Earl Raab.
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2020/dynaweb/teiproj/oh/jcomm/raabearl/@Generic__BookView

RAAB, Earl (b. 1919)
Jewish community leader

Executive of the San Francisco Community Relations Council, 1951-1987; Advocate of Minority Rights and Democratic Pluralism, vi, 264 pp., 1998.

Early years, political activity, City College, NY; Army combat intelligence; marriage, writing for Commentary; to San Francisco, 1951, executive director Jewish Community Relations Council: issues of anti-Semitism, neo-Nazi activities, Soviet Jewish emigration, church and state, civil rights, black-Jewish relations; cooperation with Farm Workers Union, San Francisco and California Mental Health associations, Bay Area Human Relations Clearinghouse, Human Rights Commission, World Without War Council, San Francisco Organizing Project, American Association for the United Nations; discusses political environment of the sixties and seventies, Israel, retirement involvement with Jewish studies. Appendices include extensive examples of Raab’s writings…

Political dude, I guess.

Introduction
by Rabbi Douglas Kahn

He is known simply as the “Dean of Community Relations.” Not just in San Francisco, but throughout the country. Earl Raab has made a permanent contribution to the lexicon of Jewish community relations.

His reputation as “the dean” is not only–or even primarily–because of his longevity in the field. He served as executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council from 1951 to 1987 and continues to be involved as a consultant. Rather the term stems from his singular ability to cogently analyze the most complex issues facing the Jewish community, to articulate the exceptional aspects of the American Jewish experience, and to identify and implement necessary remedies to safeguard the status of Jews here and abroad.

His intellectual qualities are legendary in our national organization, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, formerly known as the National Jewish Community Relations Advisory Council. Every time our national organization meets it is absolutely certain that at least one major speech will make reference to one of Earl’s ideas about “a certain kind of America” which is good for Jews. Raabisms, I like to call them.

And, his mediating qualities are legendary here at home. Earl is a craftsman–of ideas, language, and viewpoints. He has the extraordinary ability to listen to differing views, and, without pause, to identify common ground from which to mold a united policy–on church/ state issues, anti-Semitism, Israel, civil rights, or any other issue that has the potential to divide the community. Part of the secret to his success is to get all sides to believe that he agrees with their viewpoint without his ever misrepresenting his own views or compromising his principles. Jewish liberals are confident that Earl is a like-minded liberal. Jewish conservatives are equally convinced that Earl is a kindred spirit. In fact, Earl, a veteran of the City College of New York Jewish Trotskyite club (the anti-communist left), with Irving Howe and Irving Kristol among the other luminaries, emerged as a very independent-minded moderate…

Whoa. Famous political dude, I guess.

I don’t have time to wade through all his stuff to find out whether in fact he “appears to see whites mainly as potential Nazis”, but I do have time to put “earl raab whites nazis” into Google, and what comes up is a review of Culture of Critique by one Stanley Hornbeck.

http://www.heretical.org/miscella/culturec.html

Earl Raab, former president of heavily Jewish Brandeis University makes the diversity argument in a slightly different way.

Expressing his satisfaction with the prediction that by the middle of the next century whites will become a minority, he writes, “We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country.”

He is apparently prepared to displace the people and culture of the founding stock in order to prevent the theoretical rise of an anti-Jewish regime. Prof. Raab appears to see whites mainly as potential Nazis, and is willing to sacrifice their culture and national continuity in order to defuse an imagined threat to Jews.

So, way to go, Veritas! You plagiarize Stanley Hornbeck, rewrite him a little bit, and present his thoughts as your own. Very creative. Let’s see that again:

originally posted by Veritas:
**The motive is quite clearly stated by Earl Raab.

Expressing his satisfaction with the Census Bureau’s prediction that by the middle of the next century whites will become a minority, he writes, “The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country.”

He is apparently prepared to displace our people and culture in order to prevent the theoretical rise of an anti-Jewish regime. Prof. Raab appears to see whites mainly as potential Nazis, and is willing to sacrifice their culture and national continuity in order to defuse an imagined threat to Jews.**

And, hey, note that sly little misquote in the middle, where Stanley Hornbeck says, " He is apparently prepared to displace the people and culture of the founding stock", you cleverly rewrote it to say, “He is apparently prepared to displace our people and culture”, in order to make it fit your Jew-hating agenda even better. Very resourceful. And hey, dig that addition and expansion, as to what Earl Raab actually said about the Census Bureau’s prediction–those two extra sentences just make all the difference, don’t they? Why, that Earl Raab must be one white-hating Jewish mofo, eh?

:rolleyes:

And I know that that’s your own rewriting, that you didn’t just Copy and Paste it from http://www.amren.com/993issue/993issue.html because they have it as the original, which is also posted here http://www.carolontheweb.com/links/critique.html

So, the obvious question then becomes, how many of your other “thoughts” are merely cribbed from someone else?

All of them, would be my guess.

[minty_green]

Duckie, you are the god of google.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

• cough *

“goddess”, I believe…

[Agis]

Asper’s charges of media bias 'bizarre’
By Doug Saunders

AFTER a long, angry speech by Winnipeg media mogul Izzy Asper, which accused most of the world’s media of being insufficiently pro-Israeli and implied that reporters are anti-Semitic, bewildered journalists yesterday struggled to respond.

Mr. Asper’s Wednesday night speech, which was reprinted prominently in his city papers and the National Post, effectively positioned Mr. Asper and his newspapers to the far right of most of the world’s major media.

As with speeches he delivered last month with former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, it repeated the Israeli Likud party’s conservative and aggressively anti-Arab views.

[…]

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/11/Globe_Mail011102.html

[Agis]

Jailed Jewish Defense League leader Irv Rubin hospitalized after suicide attempt
AP

Rubin and associate Earl Krugel were arrested Dec. 11 on charges of plotting to bomb the King Fahd mosque in suburban Culver City and an office of US Rep. Darrell E. Issa of California.

Rubin and Krugel were arrested after an FBI informant delivered an explosive powder that authorities believed was the last component in making pipe bombs. The charges carry up to 40 years in prison upon conviction.

Rubin, who by his own account has been arrested more than 40 times, joined the JDL early in the 1970s and quickly moved up, becoming chairman in 1985.

In 1989, the leader of the rival Jewish Defense
Organization was charged with firing shots at Rubin and wounding three others in New York. Mordechai Levy was convicted of assault.

According to his biography, Rubin learned to fight
anti-Semitism while growing up in Montreal, “where some hotel owners and other business people hung signs reading ‘No Dogs or Jews Allowed’ on their doors and where French Canadian schoolchildren taunted him because he was Jewish.”

His family emigrated in 1961 and he became a US citizen and joined the Air Force in 1966, serving four years.

In 1973 he served in Israel’s civil defense corps during the Middle East war.

The JDL, whose symbol is a raised fist inside a Star of David, has the motto “Never Again,” referring to the World War II killing of 6 million Jews. It was founded in 1968 by Rabbi Meir Kahane to mount armed response to anti-Semitic acts in New York City.

[…]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1036406773163

[Liberal]

Are you making a point?

[tomndebb]

Reagrding Asper, Rubin, and Kugel: So what?

I have seen no one here argue that there are not loons and/or zealots within the Jewish community. However, what you have failed to demonstrate is that they are part of some all-encompassing movement. Based on your current arguments, we can conclude that all Presbyterians are attempting to destroy the Irish by observing the comments of Ian Paisley and his cronies or that all whites are attempting to subjugate all blacks based on the actions of some cowards in white sheets burning crosses on the property of black citizens.

[Siege]

Quite frankly, I will be happy when “we have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country.” In fact, I fervently hope we have already passed that point. If this means I favor the destruction of the white race, then I suppose I’d better start with my own family, because as literal White, Anglo-Saxon Protestants, we’re about as white as you can get.

[Siege]

Also, with regard to the vast media coverage of the Carr brothers killing, I was amused to note that it was one of 5 national news stories my notoriously parochial local newspaper chose to give a one paragraph blurb to. The other 4 were Winona Ryder’s shoplifting trial, the suicide of a Jewish Defense League leader, the Catholic church’s sex abuse policy, and the D.C. area snipers.