White only prom

Oh, and let me note that I have no idea where milroyj gets the idea that a black family would invite only other African-descended people to a Kwanzaa celebration, any more than a Jewish family would never invite Christian friends over for a dinner during Hannukah or an out-of-the-broom-closet Wiccan would never invite friends of another faith to share in a Yule celebration (barring Trad secrets).

The principles of Kwanzaa are not exclusively African in origin. They’re pretty damn admirable for anyone, really.

Errr…are you assuming more than I said? You may feel free to fight any good fight you wish, and more power to you for your moral stance, but after you’re all fought out, don’t be surprised if racism still exists.

S’all I said, hothead.

milroyj, do NOT post the same damn message repeatedly. This is spamming, and against the rules. And, for your information, saying that someone is engaging in troll-like behavior is a minor violation of the rules, but it’s not nearly as bad as YOUR behavior.

Lynn
For the Straight Dope

Does anyone else now read the OP title as ‘White only Porn’?

Regarding these two proms:

Are whites actually banned from attending the black proms? Are blacks actually banned from attending the white proms? Or do the individuals themselves decide what prom to attend?

Having two proms, one for blacks and one for whites, is ridiculous, even if the students themselves desire them on both sides. If there are cultural issues, I don’t see any reason why there couldn’t be compromises on the types of music played et cetera. More to the point, I’d hate to think that the student body perceives itself as being two opposed groups that need to compromise in the first place.

But if people want to be racist… well, there’s nothing anyone else can do about it.

I’d like to hear less complaining about how racist this school is and more talk about ways to nudge the students into being more inclusive.

I want to clarify one point. The article makes it look like Albany, GA is in Taylor County because of the Albany tagline. The article was written by a reporter for the Albany Herald newspaper and for whatever reason, he chose to use Albany instead of Butler, GA, the county seat of Taylor County and the place where Taylor County High School is located. Taylor County is 60 miles north of Albany and about a 100 miles south of Atlanta.

Granted, Albany does plenty of stupid stuff on its own but this time Albany didn’t do it. The school system here (Dougherty County) has gotten a lot of undeserved flack. Dougherty County schools do, in fact, sponsor fully intergrated proms at each of the four high schools. Apparently they’ve gotten a lot of nasty phone calls because of this article.

The stupid award, at least this time, shouldn’t be given to Albany, GA, but feel free to heap stupid all over The Albany Herald. Heaping stupid upon the Herald is one of my favorite pasttimes.

That being said, I find it just sad, as well as disgusting, that this separate prom business still goes on. I talked with one of my college classmates on Saturday, who grew up in Butler, and he told me that the Taylor County school system does not sponsor or endorse any proms, so students can’t use the high school gym for their prom. Seems to me if the school system would sponsor a prom and allow it to be held at the high school, the whole issue of separate proms just might solve itself. I always thought proms were all about celebrating your school and getting all dressed up so you could smell old gym socks all night.

OK, so we have established that the students have the right to invite anyone they please to their private functions. Even if they do so for racist reasons. And we can all make ourselves feel wonderful by heaping abuse on them.

Perhaps we could now discuss the ‘separate but equal’ rationale behind having a black junior class president, and a white junior class president.

If it is racist to go to a party for which only whites are eligible, is it also racist to vote in an election for which only whites are eligible?

Regards,
Shodan

Yes. I do see one possible exception, though: voting to elect a candidate whose platform is to put an end to the segregated elections.

As for the two class presidents thing, the article isn’t exactly clear. It’s entirely possible that, given the 50/50 split in the school, there was a tie in the student elections between a white kid and a black kid. Plenty of schools have co-presidents. I’m willing to give them a guarded benefit of the doubt in this case.

[Devil’s Advocate] It’s entirely possible that, in a very small school, all the white kids in a particular grade know each other. I went to school in a predominantly Chicano area; white kids made up a little less (IIRC) than half the student population, Hispanic were a little more, and we had maybe 10-15 non-white, non-Chicano students in the entire school. I knew just about everyone in my graduating class of 100. [/Devil’s Advocate]

We were relatively unfettered with racism where I went to school. Oh, I’m not saying it wasn’t there, it didn’t exist, anything like that. I do know that the one kid who was a member of the KKK got beaten up (by white kids, too) the first week he was there. He shut up right quick.

I knew more white kids than other races at my school…because most of my classes had more white kids in 'em, and I was a social outcast and therefore didn’t have much luck meeting people.

We had one prom. What, you gonna have two proms for 100 kids? Waste of time and money (OUR money, incidentally; we raised the money for the senior prom when we were juniors, so we were always paying for the class ahead). There was hip-hop (for the white kids, no joke; the three or four black kids in my class were fine with it) there was rap, there was country (more country than anything else), there was Tejano (MORE SELENA THAN I CAN STAND!!!). It’s kinda scary to watch 80 people doing the Macarena at once. There was the one-step (only dance I’ve ever been able to master), there was the two-step, there was line dancing (God help us).

Then, of course, there was the Table O’ Outcasts (me, my best friend, a few other geek and nerd types) who mocked everyone else viciously. And then my best friend and I went out back and shared a cigarette with the photographer. Happy days. :slight_smile:

Since that doesn’t seem to have happened, it would seem that everyone in the school, black or white, showed racism by voting for segregated candidates. I would be more upset over that, were I a student at the school or a parent, than over what some students called their private party.

Too bad they weren’t in Florida. :wink:

If I can ask without invoking another train wreck, why do you feel it more likely that there was a tie than that it was based on racism?

Regards,
Shodan

Zenster:

So of course you’re willing to call black racists niggers and hispanic racists spics? Thought not.

If you cannot comprehend my amused disgust for one who rants about discrimination against one group while using pejoratives against another, then you are so stupid you should stick your microcephalic head into a big bucket of shit and flush the bucket.

I don’t necessarily think it was more likely, just possible. Given the paucity of facts in the article about the class president situation, I don’t feel qualified to dispense smitings at this time. If the elections were segregated, then I’m agin it. If not, then I can understand the outcome given the demographics of the school and the fact that co-presidents aren’t unheard of.

It’d be nice if there was more than one article on the wire. Every source I’ve found so far seems to be based on the same article from the Albany Herald.

Just curious, but what group specifically does “cracker” denigrate? Is it all white people? Only southern white people? I think Zenster was using it to mean “only racist white people.” All I know is, as a white person, I’ve never been offended by it in the least.

Miller: It’s my understanding that cracker refers only to Southern whites. I have lived in the Midwest most of my life and have never heard anyone use the term up here.

It’s probably only mildly ragging, somewhat akin to Yank or Limey, but I have gotten almighty tired of that subset of Dopers that screams in horror at any real or perceived racism against people of color or homosexuals, but throws expressions like “white trash” or “trailer park trash” around with abandon.

It seems a concept that’s too subtle for some Dopers to understand, but you aren’t going to eliminate prejudice in this country by screaming in horror about slights to one group, then using pejoratives against another.

Or maybe the wealthier liberals on this board think bigotry is peachy-keen as long as it’s directed against poor people, especially if they’re white.

It’s become generalized from the term “Georgia Cracker,” a derogatory term derived from the nicknames of immigrants to the lowlands from the secluded Appalachian mountains.

The Peyote Coyote

You think “white trash” is offensive to white people? Do you know what “white trash” means? And “trailer trash” is rude and offensive, but how is it racial?

Oh, go fuck yourself.
When you’re done, see if you can find an even bigger brush, you know, one that may cover the entire southeast. Actually, you’re from the USA, just like these kids in Albany, GA…don’t you give a shit about your image? :rolleyes:

You may check out the source yourself at Dictionary.com.

1.) If a term is rude and offensive, why use it; unless, of course, it is your intent to be rude and offensive?
2.) In the area where I live, “trailer park trash” is virtually identical with white trash. There are many trailer parks scattered across Indiana that are inhabited largely, if not exclusively, by white people. Satisfied?

Let’s move away from the actual incident that inspired this thread, for a moment. Let me tell you about a real-life high school I know of, and let people offer their takes.

My ex-wife is a Hispanic American, and grew up in a small town in South Texas. I’ve visited this town many times, and the local poulation is ABOUT 48% white, 48% Hispanic, and 4% black. Now, don’t get the wrong idea- while this town has its share of stereotypical rednecks, there are VERY few real bigots. People of all races, creeds and colors are perfectly cordial and friendly toward one another. There’s no Ku Klux Klan, there’s no obscene graffiti demeaning any ethnic group, there are no “We Don’t Serve Dogs or Mexicans” signs in stores or restaurants. Race relations are, superficially, just fine. And yet…

As my ex described it, when she was going to high school in the late 70s and early 80s, there were “white” tables and “brown” tables in the cafeteria at lunchtime. When there were class trips, there was always a “white” bus and a “brown” bus. Oh, it’s NOT that school administrators segregated the kids! Just the opposite! Mexican kids just naturally clustered together and white kids did the same. It’s NOT that white kids hated Mexicans or vice versa. It’s more that each group wanted to hang out with the kids they related to, the kids who understood their jokes, the ones who played the same music on their boomboxes (the white kids in those days all listened to country music, while the Mexicans were all headbangers who listened to Iron Maiden, the Scorpions and Judas Priest).

Oh, there WERE white kids with Mexican friends, and nobody gave them a hard time about it. There was no stigma to hanging out with Mexicans- it just didn’t happen all that often, because even in the same small town, people often seemed to be living in very different worlds.

I went to my ex’s 10th year high school reunion, and I could see that not much had changed. Again, there was NO hostility. Everybody, white and brown, seemed very nice. But there were still white tables and brown tables, and very rarely did the twain meet. And to make things a little worse, the band was hired by one of the white female alumni, so naturally, we got to hear almost nothing but country music all night! (I’m as white as they come, but I was comiserating with the Mexicans over the music all night!)

Now, as far as I know, this town’s high school never planned or sponsored segregated events. Their proms were always integrated… which meant that, even if they hired a band or DJ who priomised to play both country AND hard rock, at least half the attendees would be bored silly for a full half of the evening.

Now, nobody ever rebelled and said, “It’s not much fun to sit around listening to music we hate. Whaddya say we have our own big bash somewhere else? We can play our Willie Nelson, they can play their AC/DC, and we can all be happy for a change.” But it COULD have happened, very easily. It could still happen today in a LOT of places.

On one hand, I think it’s a shame. On the other hand, there’s a LOT more to it than simple racism. And yet, if it had happened, I know exactly how it would have been presented in the press: “Whites Want Segregated Prom,” or “Whites Don’t Want Mexicans at Their Prom.”

I don’t doubt that there are still bigots who just hate blacks and don’t want to associate with them in any way. But more often, what you’ve got are nice kids of different races who don’t HATE anybody… but who don’t have much in common and don’t feel like hanging out together.

That’s sad, but it’s not simple racism, and it’s not easy to fight.

Im probably going to get flamed for this, but Ill post it anyway.

If it is a private function, which it is, people can do whatever the hell they want to do. If they want it to be all white/black/yellow/purple/green whatever, if they have the money for it, they can do it. I can have a party for all of the people in my neighboorhood, but only let in the hot chicks, nothing illegal about it. They can do it for whatever reason they want and call it whatever they want as well; whether they just dont want blacks around or because they feel unwelcome at the other prom. They are not breaking the law in any manner whatsoever and technically no one can do anything about it. Im not saying in any way whatsoever that I think what they did was morally correct or socially responsible.

Now however, I would wonder why the governor of the state, or the school board president or some figure or authority in the state would choose not to condemn the actions of these kids. Do they really want the rest of the country to think that is the way that Georgia is? What about the parents as well? No way in hell my kid would be attending that kinda of segregated “private” prom. It took me a couple hours to read through this whole thread (damn, I need to get working!! :slight_smile: ) and Im just trying to get back to the point instead of throwing out the name calling and racial slurs. If anyone here is from Georgia, I would like to know how enraged you are (if you are) that your state government (or local school board) refused to comment on the subject.