White Van Scam (Ann Arbor, MI Beware!) -or- I'm an idiot, want $ back (Long)

First, a word of warning to those in the Ann Arbor, MI area (and presumably all the surrounding towns).

If you see a white van that seems to be from some kind of audio equipment manufacturer/distributor, stay away! Especially if they try to sell you speakers. Either that or call the cops and get them out of there. They’ll attempt to sell you speakers that they claim are super high quality and very expensive for a dirt cheap price. Don’t fall for it.

I was walking back from spending the night in ER with my friend who had passed out from watching another friend get her nose pierced and smacked her head on a table and had a pretty bad concussion… where was I? Oh, yeah. Anyway, I was walking back from her place this morning and a woman in a van shouted, “Do you want some speakers?” I actually did want speakers and for some bizarre reason I thought they meant for free (people are always giving away free stuff on campus), so I said, “Yeah.” They pulled over and gave me a big story about how they had just signed off on an invoice for audio equipment and they found out they had been given more than they had signed for. They even showed me the invoice. Well, flahed it in front of me for a few seconds is probably more accurate. They then said they wanted to sell the equipment before they got back to their store because then they’d have to give it to the store and they wouldn’t make anything off of it. Very friendly, but also very aggresive and pushy people. Having never been the subject of a dupe before, I wouldn’t know if they were good or not, but from the amount of stuff I’ve read on the internet, I’m not the only one who got slapped (Reviews and Complaints of the Speakers). Anyway, they showed me the speakers they wanted to sell, and they showed me a nice laminated insert that showed the speakers at being listed for $1199. I told them I’d give them $100 for it, and they said, “C’mon, we have to split it three ways.” So I said, “What do you want?” They came back with $600 and I laughed and said, “I can swing $300.” So one of the girls walked with me to my ATM and I pulled out $300. I was feeling a little suspicious of this, so I made sure to look in the box and check that there were in fact speakers in there (there were) and so I gave her the $300 and felt like I had gotten a steal. Oh, yeah, other details: they wanted me to give them beer money, they had accents that I couldn’t place, the one who did all the talking claimed to be from Connecticut but also mentioned New York, there were two girls (the one who talked was probably in her 30s, the other looked the early twenties), one boy who looked like he was no more than 18, and… oh, yeah, I’m an idiot. So I came back thinking that I’d sell these on eBay and make a nice little extra bit of cash, very proud of myself, until I found the website above. I called the police to report the fraud and they said they’d keep an eye out for it. I hope they find these people and are able to bust them for some sort of fraud. Apparently it’s not technically a fraud though, and I should be able to get a refund if I can find them. Unfortunately, I never got a receipt since it wasn’t really a deal. That leads me to (at last) my question(s).

Was it a fraud? They lied to me about their story, but they did provide me with a (presumably) working product. I’m hesitant to try them out because I’m hoping to get a refund, and I don’t want to give them anything to use as a reason not to.

Assuming I find them again, how can I get my money back? If they don’t give me my money back, is it then a crime? I’m a bit bitter about losing $300, but I honestly hope that nobody else gets scammed by these people. Losing the money was my own stupid fault. I’d feel a lot better if I knew that at least these people were doing something illegal.

Oh, yeah, the speakers I bought are called “Acoustic Image 6.5.”

-Audiobottle, the dunce

This sounds like a rather industrious, shady marketing method/scam. They appear to be somewhat organized.
There may be a slight chance of getting a refund.
Check out Scam Shield for more info on this.

Kiss your money goodbye.
Don’t you know that the only thing you buy from a stranger in a truck is ice cream?

IMHO…
It is a scam. These people buy (steal, beg, borrow) these speakers, show you an imaginary comparison, then pressure you into buying the speakers.

Count yourself lucky that they didn’t mug you while you were at the ATM.

I read some of the comments in the link you provided, and I don’t think you stand the slightest chance of getting a refund.

No way are you getting your money back! You’re lucky you’re alive after going to the ATM with a stranger. In L.A., we always assume anything sold out of a truck with some kind of B.S. story is stolen.

I actually trained with the companythat pulls this scam for two days (years ago) before my guilty conscience outweighed my empty wallet and I quit.

Here is the deal. The speakers that they sell are fairly cheap low end stuff. They would probably retail for around $200/pair. Every morning somewhere in your metro area these guys and several more like them meet in a garage that serves as their headquarters. There, they load several vans up with speakers.
Each van’s team is supplied with several different invoices
each showing a different number of speakers so they can always show the “duck” an invoice that says they have two extra and unaccounted for speakers. That along with the phony glossy brochure with the ridiculous claim for the value of the speakers are their tools to dupe you.

The scam occupies a grey area legally. What they are doing is selling you an impression that you just lucked into a situation where you managed to get a studio quality pair of high-end speakers for cheap, simply because somebody goofed up and overloaded these “professional audio technicians’” van that morning. That is the lie. The speakers are real enough. It’s the impression that you got more than you paid for that’s false. Likely you paid for more than you got.

It’s how this company does all of it’s business. And here is how they get paid. For each pair of speakers the team unloads, the company gets $200.00. The team gets to keep anything over that. So if a two man team gets a “duck” to buy the speakers for $600.00, BAM! They each just made $200.00. The company also gives incentives for the most speakers unloaded each month, so sometimes a team will let the speakers go for almost nothing. Yeah they might have to pay $200 out of their pocket to the company, but if they win the monthly incentive they may get a $1500 bonus.

The folks that do this are at the very least extremely unscrupulous, but they make killer dough. The guy who was training me lived in a hotel on room service and owned a 30’ sailboat. He also bragged about the time he convinced a teenager to fork over his college savings (after a trip to the ATM)to take advantage of this “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity. He laughed when he thought about how hard the kid’s dad probably kicked his ass when he got home with the speakers.

I’ve run into these people twice (guys in my case). Both times I said no, but it got me interested, so I looked online and found that indeed it was a scam.

I found one site with a story from a guy that actually DID get his money back, by tracking down the central warehouse all the trucks were leaving from. Look under the New York section on the ScamShield site. Maybe you can get your money back too.

This is a nationwide scam, not just in MI. Apparently they’re rather successful.

I was afraid of this… I would never have gone to the ATM with a stranger if it hadn’t been on a very busy corner in broad daylight with cops at the corner. But as it turned out, they didn’t have to kill me to get my money since I quite willingly handed it over anyway.
I didn’t get a receipt, but do you think I have any chance of getting my money back from the company if I get a hold of their main offices?

I don’t think you have a chance of getting your money back without a LOT of work, and maybe not even then. A company like this is well-prepared for the possibility that a customer will want their money back after finding out they were duped – an angry phone call or visit isn’t going to cut it. They don’t care if you’re angry – it’s not like they’re hoping for repeat business from you. You have to present a credible threat of legal action, in my opinion.

Since you have no receipt, that last part will be no more than a bluff on your part. It could work, but it’s probably not worth the effort.

Don’t feel too bad – a good friend of mine was living with a guy in the Haight (San Francisco) who proudly came home with a “brand new” VCR he’d bought out of the back of a van for only like $50 (this was ten years ago, when VCRs were at least $250-$300). Until he put a tape in and heard it clunk off the bottom of the empty VCR case. Upon opening it, he found an empty case with a rock inside (to provide the weight).

She then realized he was a total loser (he was) and broke up with soon after.

On second thought…

Do you have any friends who are lawyers? If you can get someone to write a lawyerly letter on letterhead that says you have proof of fraud (they have no way to know that you didn’t get a receipt) and will take them to court if they don’t send you a refund immediately, that might work. And if it doesn’t, it’s pretty low effort.

Tell them you paid $400, so if you do get a refund you end up scamming them. Bastards.

Nearly got burned by these folks and nearly got a job with them years later. I’d say the odds of you getting anything back are pretty slim.

How the operation works is that the regional company is an “independent agent” for the main company. This means that the main company no doubt can weasel their way out of it. Also the regional company is a “fly-by-night” operation. One guy comes into town, sets everything up, finds a bunch of patsies to work for him, and then when things start heating up (i.e. the cops show up everytime these guys try to sell something), sells the business to the top sales guy and moves on.

These guys sell all kinds of crap, from cologne to who knows what. They’re able to survive because they only burn people for a small amount of money, so they won’t bother with a lawyer. Really, though, if all the folks who got burned by these dipsticks got together and filed a suit or lobbied congress, they could get these guys shut down for good.

I was intrigued by some of the comments in the link provided in the OP, it seems that some of these speakers are actually pretty good, they’re just wired all wrong. You should look into that, maybe you can make something worthwhile out of them yet.

The funny thing is that my fraternity owns a set of speakers that they bought a few years ago as a ‘deal’ from some shady character going door to door, which smacks of this scam. The speakers themselves are crap, almost nonexistent bass and tinny treble. They’re good for loud parties but we have to rent a subwoofer to get any decent kind of room-filling sound. Now I’m inspired to crack them open and see if I can do anything nifty with them using some Radioshack parts.

Rib Eye has it right. This is a nationwide scam. I first heard about it on a radio talk show Tom Martieno which is a consumer avicate show and He mentioned it ofter - check out www.troubleshooter.com (his web site) as I’m sure it’s up there. Then Someone came to me on Long Island (EMS lot near rosevelt field mall) and asked me if I wanted to buy the speakers - I told them to get lost.

As for your money back - Most likely youi don’t have the right to it back - the product does have a MSRP of $1???.?? - and is worth more like $150. You made a deal they accepted it and you normally don’t have the right to a refund.

IIRC the brand name is very close to a high end brand name - IIRC acoustic research = high end, acoustic response = crap. It is manufactured to look heavy duty with all the external heavy duty attachments and a weighty cabinet. This is why thee things cost $150 - the speakers are the cheapest things they can get.

Sorry to hear you got scammed.

I was stopped at a traffic light two months ago and the two kids in the WHITE VAN beside me starting honking and gesturing at me. I rolled down my window to see what they wanted (cut in front of me for a left turn? simple directions?).

Kid 1: Hey, man! We got a brand new killer DVD home theatre system with surround! Best Buys accidentally loaded into the van when we bought a bunch of other stuff. We’ll make you a great deal on it!

Me: Bye!

Does anyone else have a dented fender and get the “I work at a body shop and the boss is out of town this weekend - I can fix that for (insert amount under $200 here)!”? Wow, that’s some complicated punctuation…

When I was working at Circuit City, I was out in the parking lot, out of uniform, and a man pulled up in a van, explaining that he was given extra speakers by accident, and he wanted to unload them cheap. I said I didn’t need any speakers, and he politely said good-bye and drove off.

(And what a good spot he picked. Imagine, a good percentage of the people in a Circuit City parking lot are already in the market for a pair of speakers.)

Anyway, this is a classic, halway-dishonest sales strategy; plenty of people have been doing it for a long time. It’s sleazy, and it’s not the way I’d do business myself, but is this something we should really even make illegal?

So the guy gives you false pretenses, that he’s a dishonest employee, and the speakers are stolen. But beyond that, he simply says “I have these speakers. In our opinion, they’re worth $1200. Would you like to buy them right now, for $300?” They don’t have a gun to your head. You said “These speakers are worth $300 to me; I’ll buy them.”

It sucks that they use high-pressure, “only chance in a lifetime” sales tactics. It sucks if the speakers don’t sound as good as they look. It sucks that the brand name sounds expensive, but really isn’t. It sucks that the vendor you bought from doesn’t issue receipts, and doesn’t offer a 30-day return privlege. (I’m no lawyer, but I don’t think there’s any law requiring return privleges, or receipts.)

The short of it is that you and the vendor agreed to exhange the speakers for $300, and they have honored their obligation.

For one, how do the speakers sound? My friend’s father has some no-name van-bought speakers that he probably paid a little too much for, but they sound quite decent, and he enjoys them.

If the speakers sound bad, think of it as a lesson worth $300.

The scam is more prevalent than you think.

A buddy and I somehow got roped in by, you guessed it, two guys in a white Astro minivan, selling speakers. I honestly can’t remember exactly how we wound up talking to this guy, or his exact sales pitch (probably a variant of the “we were given too many” as usual) but I very clearly remember the glossy, full-color brochure for “Auido- Something” speakers and the fact they were supposed to retail at $1,100 a set. The van was probably a rental, and had an empty, bare “industrial” interior. 'Couple of clipboards and probably four sets of speakers.

The kid first offered 'em to us for $600/set, and at the time, I wouldn’t have minded a pair, and for a short while we were actually haggling into the $300/set range.

The kid had his high-pressure sales pitch down pat, had the so-called “invoices”, etc. Slick operation, I have to admit.

Fortunately, I let that nagging voice in the back of my head win out, told 'im no thanks, and went on my way.

This was around five years ago, and in a small town of only about 6,000 up here in Backwater, Alaska.

Early last year some time, I happened across a link to a blow-by-blow of the exact same scam, and it really wasn’t 'til then that I understood it wasn’t one kid with a vanful of stolen speakers, it’s a nationwide scam.

The info I read was that they’re not stolen, they’re just incredibly cheap, probably import, speakers in well-printed boxes. The ‘sales pitch’ is designed to sell what would in all actuality be $25/set worthless crap, for as much as possible.

And they’re so cheap, that the “dealers” that set these kids up, in getting their $200 seed money, are probably making plenty.

Long story short, I agree with the others. Your money is gone; consider it an expensive learning experience. Do what you can to educate those who haven’t yet learned their lessons.

This has been going on for a long time. Some guys in a van in Boston tried to sell me speakers in 1988. I was dead broke at the time so I didn’t even bother to talk to them for more than 20 seconds.

Here’s some advice. Never buy speakers unless you can listen to how they sound.

hmm…now that the word is out that they use white vans, maybe these people will switch to, say, black SUVs??

Funny, I ran into these people in NJ two years ago. I had the money in my savings account and almost bouhgt it because It seems like a good deal. They agreed to follow me to an ATM machine and then I changed my mind. When I got to the bank I went inside, wasted some time came back and told them that my paycheck didn’t clear and I’d have to go to my house which is an hour away to get the money since i have it at home. I think we had discussed be buying them for 250 They agreed to follow me to my house and I ditched them!

This scam is alive and well in the UK also - I saw it on a consumer watchdog program about 5 years ago.

IMO, you should never accept too-good-to-be-true-offers. They are. If the offer really is good, the chances are heavily in favour of those goods being stolen. I don’t know what US law is like, but morality aside, if those goods are found to be stolen then they will be returned to the owner and you get zero compensation (most often seen with cars).

A similar principle applies to any high commission-based sale (windows, timeshare etc.). Don’t sign for anything on the day - you will get it for less.

Actually there was a guy at the swap meet I used to work for who actually bought oversupplies in various acuctions and these guys made him look bad

So he registered wiht the chanber of commerence and such and gave out computer printed reciepts

But Theres been guys selling meat like this … they come up saying they had an over shipment of meat and there selling it door to door …

Its nothing diffrent that what ya can buy at sschwans or omaha stakes ect

but ive always wondered if selling mean like that was pursuant to health laws since they just drive around with huge freezers on the back of pick-ups