Whither Scotland?

Whisky :wink:

Very glad to wake up and see that sanity has prevailed. Less happy to see that the tablet I made at around 1am for the “bring food from your country” thing at work today didn’t set. If I wasn’t slightly hungover I might try to find some kind of metaphor in that.

I may as well throw this out there: I am pro a fully federal United Kingdom. There is going to be a lot of anger if Scotland gets Devo Max (which apparently is up in the air with MPs saying they’ll vote against it) and everywhere else stays the same. The whole process has been a wake up call for the rest of the union, especially England, as to how Scotland gets so much more control than anyone else. THe others are going to want the same level of control.

Well the opinion of my Mother, who felt really quite intimidated by the Yes campaigners when she was back home a week ago, is that many No voters decided to simply keep it to themselves for fear of the Yes voters. Every single Scot that posts regularly on my Facebook was a Yes and their actions were, frankly, pathetic. When they weren’t purely lying they were foaming at the mouth shouting at anyone and anything. I was embarrassed to be related to them.

400,000 out of 4,283,392 eligible voters * ( 16% of whom couldn’t be bothered to vote ) is not a narrow margin.

It’s a small country.

  • 3,623,245 voted.

No votes 2,001,926
Yes votes 1,617,989

No 55%
Yes 45%

Turnout 84.59%

Scotland decively votes No to Independence.

So it is settled.

For so many months of the this wrestling for the political soul of Scotland we finally know what the Scots want.

That was the Scottish question.

However, the vote was not for No change. Substantial commitments were made on delivering new powers to the Scots Parliament according to a timetable that is very ambitious.

How to reconcile the power of the Scots Parliament with their additional representation in the UK parliament? How to do the same for Wales and Northern Ireland?

This constitutional conundrum was first articulated by Tam Dalyell as the West Lothian question. How could it be fair that Scottish voters vote on UK matters that include all of England, yet English votes not have a say in matters that apply in Scotland and are addressed by a Scottish parliament? It would not be fair. Scotland would have a disproportionate influence of matters that may be issues that are local to England.

This is now the English question.

The voices in England that have so long been quiet will now rise in rancourous debate about how much has been given to Scotland and how to rebalance the constitution.

I predict and very rancourous bunfight in Westminster and Alex Salmond holding them to the aggressive timetable and the commitments made so far every step of the way to deliver Devo max.

…and we have a UK General election next May. It is going to be fun.

Now time to pressure our MPs for some real constitutional and electoral change off the back of this momentum. The Scots had Westminster on the back foot in the last fortnight of campaigning. Now’s the best chance to have questions like West Lothian, devolution for England and what to do about London’s dominance answered: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

England should totally have a separation referendum now.

I’ve never really cared if Scottish MPs can vote on English matters whilst not vice versa; just seems a petty and inconsequential matter.

That’s one tiny aspect of what is wrong with the country. I’m sitting in Cambridgeshire: our roads are like something from the 18th century, Osborne was planning earlier this year to close down our main road (the A14) and replace it with a toll road until there was nearly an insurrection, our railways are shit, we have the lowest education spending of anywhere in the country, and so on.

It’s pretty clear that, despite us being in the wider South East, the powers that be just don’t give a shit about us and rely on safe seats to continue sending Tories to Westminster whilst extracting all the corporation taxes from the Cambridge triangle without reinvesting anything back. Elsewhere, it is even worse. The South West, North and Midlands are all underdeveloped due to the insane focus on London. Have you ever driven on the A1, for instance? It’s the main link between North and South along the East Coast and in many parts (especially north of Newcastle) it’s like a horse and cart track. The only way anything is going to change is by weakening London’s grasp on the country and bringing those in power closer to the people where they can be held accountable.

QFT. The ridiculous situation with the railways between Manchester and the rest of Lancashire and Leeds and the rest of Yorkshire (it takes several hours to travel limited distances) is only one factor in that area - which along the M62 corridor is effectively one large conurbation - that is limiting the potential for that area to become an economic powerhouse, due to the difficult of the free movement of the labour force. Meanwhile in London, billions is being spent on CrossRail to reduce the journey time from West London to Canary Wharf by a few minutes.

I wouldn’t describe West Lothian as petty and inconsequential - Scottish MPs voting on English matters has, in the recent past, resulted in tuition fees for English university students that are not in force in Scotland and establishing foundation hospitals, both of which were controversial and both of which got through on the back of Scottish votes. It’s an issue that needs resolving, along with much else.

Yeah, I come from Wigan. There’s massive room for economic growth if they’d establish a proper railway link between Liverpool and Hull, connecting Merseyside, Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and Humberside. The entire M62 corridor could be an effective economic counterbalance to London. A proper spur connecting Sheffield into the line would be good too.

Connecting the North and upgrading the A1 (making it a motorway the length and breadth of the country) should be a priority, not splashing tens of billions on HS2 to get people into London 20 minutes quicker.

I would argue that it in the specific question of whether or not you even want to be a part of your country anymore, 45% saying “we want to break up the country” is an alarmingly high number.

What, like tuition fees for example? That bill would not have passed without the support of Scottish MPs. So now English students pay fees, while Scottish students do not. Hardly inconsequential.

Is there evidence that the current state of trans Pennine rail links is significantly hampering economic opportunities? Straight question, I don’t know. I do think it is possible to build infrastructure in the vague hope that its mere existence will somehow boost economic activity, and find that it doesn’t. See the Humber Bridge, or those ghost airports in Spain.

Around these parts, that’s considered a landslide.

At least now the Shetland Islands will probably decide to stay with Scotland rather than secede.

Apparently the real referendum should have been on whether to kick Greater London out of the union.

Interesting idea. Maybe we can get rid of Wash DC, too!

Unfortunately, our elected representatives (presumably) won’t go with it.

It seems much of Scottish independence wasn’t really thought through. Magical pixies were going to come in and take care of all the really messy problems, without having any negative impact on the economy or political stability. I have a U.S. friend who is very disappointed because of some belief Scotland was going to become a great Socialist state once freed of the conservative influences of England. When pointed out it would be hard to do that without a currency and with oil revenue on the downswing, she said the practical side didn’t matter. I think that might have been Greece’s take on running a country, too.

I breathed a sigh of relief this morning.

I question your grasp of statistics. What I see is a sensational statement about a narrow victory. Show me a 70-30 result and with that population I’ll consider it a “thumping”.