This post is to the good American people. I am posting it because this is bothering me for a while since the terrible day. I am not posting this to cause trouble but this is not a very pleasant post–I needed to talk about this with somebody, so I chose this board.
I have been listening to the news events today, and it is innundated with topics like, “Civil Liberties”, and “Racial Typecasting”.
A few years ago, I learned from a friend about the idea of the American Government wanting to get the U.S citizens in a position to take away their freedoms, and possessions, so I am posting a sort of “What If”, idea.
Why did the U.S, knowing the Terrorists like the Taliban tried to bring down the trade centers before not try and put into effect very strict enforcements then??? How about the other “hits” the U.S has taken by terrorists?
Why does it seem that with the help of the media, the government and media is trying to scare the Spit out of the U.S citizens??? The citizens are depressed, angry, frightened that the worst can happen and some are turning to violence, that would sure to cause a type of Marshall Law that none of us wants.
Is the “hit” all the work of the Terrorists?? Or is it an elaborate plan, and the long end of it is to cripple the citizens and get them to sign away their freedoms??
These are the frightening thoughts I, and others are having.
I find that I am more angry than anything, I don’t trust the government. I didn’t see any sense keeping this in. I needed to share it with you.
Mr. Carpenter, your friend sounds a bit paranoid to say the least.
Stop and think about it for a moment. What would they gain by stripping everyone of their rights and possessions? If we’re all in prison, working for sweatshops, who’s going to buy the crap we make? Certainly not us! Do you realize how elaborate and complicated such a scheme would have to be and how unlikely it is that they could pull it off, given that they can’t even figure out how to kill Castro after 40 years of trying? (And if your friend says that’s all part of the scheme, in order to lull us to sleep, he really is paranoid and needs seek professional help immediately.)
Now, I can see the Feds using this as an opportunity to try and strip us of some of our civil rights out of some misguided notion that it will help keep us safe, but to say that they out and out planned it (and who could order the murder of 6,000 + of their fellow countrymen and be sane enough to get in such a posistion where they could actually make this happen?), is quite frankly, giving the bad guys waaay more credit than they deserve.
The events on 9/11 were frightening. How can you discuss them without scaring people? I get disturbed hearing the “crop dusting” thing.
Carl Sagan said something about claims requiring evidence–especially this kind. I see no evidence for an “elaborate plan.”
I don’t trust it reflexively. I don’t distrust it reflexively either. When the government wants to do warrantless searches, or arrests Arab-Americans on no suspicion, we’ll talk.
The warrant requirement changes for phone taps sound reasonable so far. They want to make it possible to tap a person instead of a particular phone. Measures I find not exactly Stalinistic, given changing phone usage habits since the “Title III” (scroll to “Background”) warrant was devised. Cell phones are new to this area of law. Under the existing regime, you can beat a Title III warrant if you use cell phones.
TITLE III Requirements
“Government agencies were required to demonstrate probable cause, identify the specific suspect, crime, telephone to be used, and time of conversation, and secure a warrant before they could legally execute a wiretap.” (Emphasis mine)
There was a plot to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport during the Millennium celebration, end of 1999. If you search the news sources you will find that the U.S. Government thwarted that plan.
With respect to the recent tragic events wherein American commercial airlines were stolen and maybe 10,000 people were murdered, and much property was destroyed, we all became too complacent with airport and airline security. I think we’re all to blame there because many fliers admitted that they witnessed the lax security but we never complained.
We ARE the “American Government.” We participate in elections and can demonstrate, etc. Heck, if people like Jesse Ventura, Sonny Bono, Bono’s widow, etc., can become elected officials, there is no reason why you and I cannot. BTW: I am not degrading Ventura, etc.
The people (or rather, animals) who want to strip the U.S. of its freedoms and possessions are not home grown.
If you are feeling down and frightened, you should talk this out in every format possible. One thing that helps me is looking at a lot of news items from all over the world. I also look at thoughts on a couple of boards like this one. I am a former ACLU member, and I know they will fight hard against diluting any of our civil liberties.
TuckerFan, paranoid yes. But we have good reason for
being this way. Some things don’t add up. Telling someone
apart from someone else is a lot harder nowadays since lots
of different ethnicities look similar including “black people” who have mixed heritage. “Town Hall Meeting”, was the name of tonight’s show on MSNBC. It was very good. All
types of people were there. The Jewish people were the first
ones to oppose the racial typecasting. Some Arab people’s din’t understand why we were so very upset as to go after them in anger. WEll just wait. We one more thing happens here, a lot of Americans are going to snap! This is going to happen to keep sanity. Paranoid, yes yes.
Beagle, if I wanted to get those cell phones, I would get them. In times of War, or FEMA the Feds could collect them as well as our weapons. Ever read a book called, “Behold the Pale Horse” by William Cooper?
Niwroc, thank you. I think I will keep away from the
news as much as possible. Especially MSNBC.
I do believe that decent people will fight the good fight,
and I hope our government is behind the American People for
real.
Beagle turns head to one side
“Ruf?” Beagle paws at ground
“Whimper?” Beagle’s long floppy ears are waiting for an explanation of what you are talking about
If the government can do anything it wants, why is John Ashcroft sitting in front of Congress saying that they are at a tactical disadvantage?
I will check into the book. Less cryptic answer please.
Just wait, it get’s even better. Check out the disclaimer link you’re supposed to click before getting to the actual book review. It says I CERTIFY THAT I AM A STRONG BELIEVER IN JESUS CHRIST AND WANT TO CONTINUE http://www.cuttingedge.org/review/disc.html
Beagle, if you read the book you will know my fears. The book is very interesting. If you want to survive the read psychologically then pretend it is a sci-fi novel.
China, I am not sure if you are picking up on something that we are missing. If you are would you please share with us? That disclaimer is hard to interpret. I think it might have triple meanings. Is the disclaimer a fishing for Christians? Is it on the side of the New Government? Is is put there by the Illuminatus?
The book omits ties the U.S has with the Middle East. It is missing alot or intentionally skipping it.
Bordelond if I yell for you to “look out”! I dont think you want to have time to anal-lyze what I said to see if the exclamatory sentence has any intellectual bearing. I think if you have any sense, you’d just want to get the “hell” out of there.
This book was given to many college students to read during the 90’s. It made some of them more aware of how precious our Civil Liberties are not to be taken for granted, to name just one for instance.
Ah, yes, Behold the Pale Horse, what an epic fantasy for paranoids! Look, Mr. Carpenter, I don’t know how to explain this to you, but that book is fiction! Cooper’s supposedly ex-FBI or ex-CIA or ex-Majestic 12 or some other super secret organization like that, right? (They, of course, deny this because if they were to confirm it, then they would have to admit that he was right and this would thwart their plans for world domination. :rolleyes: ) And he claims that the Feds are plotting to take everything we own away for dark reasons known only to themselves, right? (Perhaps its to sell us for parts to the guys flying the saucers!) If there really was such a grand organziation, as Cooper claims, then don’t you think that they could have kept his book from being published in the first place by arranging a little “accident” for him before he ever finished the book? Of course, there’s another possibility, that Cooper never left the organization he claims to be a former employee of, and that his book is itself a work of disinformation. I mean, if you’re really going to be paranoid about the whole thing, then why not go the extra mile and say he himself is all part of the plot?
Cooper, from what I recall is a hack and even most right-wing groups have begun to distance themselves from him because even they can’t believe some of his more outlandish claims.
Ok I heard he was goofy, but that book was my first really scare read and I was young when I read it. Thanks for telling me that it is a fiction. I like sci-fiction and fantasy reads like this because they are the only reads that scare me.
Marshall Law/Martial Law its all the same to me. It is something I don’t want to happen. Martial reminds me of marriage. Thanks anyway for the correction.
I found one good way to stop from feeling bad and paranoid is to stop watching the news so much. It really helps.
Mr. Carpenter, (BTW are you a big fan of The Day the Earth Stood Still?) thanks for reminding of the book. I’ve got a friend who’s paranoia verges on the point of insanity at times, so I think I’ll pop a copy by him sometime just for a laugh!
We are all quick to say “Oh you are paranoid”, but there has been some major violations in US Security, and I dont think it is fair to put it all down to wild assumptions.
I mean no one wants to imagine that this could have been partly at the fault of as some of you term “home-grown american” But I think this is one of the major underlying problems that surround this whole problem. I have never known any kind of violence in all of my 23 years except at the distance of a remote control. I have no idea of the impact that the thousands of deaths would have had on the thousands of people/families etc. And I do understand that in times of trouble people cling to loved ones and come together as a community to get through it.
But I think that you must look at the reasons behind why people do what they do. And the blind patriotic views are part of the reason why other countries or groups do not like the USA.
People were disgusted by the images of the young Palestines dancing in the street when it happened, but how do you think the Japanese felt when they see photos of parades of war “heroes” and crowds dancing in the street when they bombed Japan killing 200,000?
And why is it different?
I mean I live in a western society and have done all my life and even I get angry at the inbuilt assumption we are brought up with that we are the leaders in moral and ethical values and we know what is best. I make no excuses for whoever did this because war,government or religion murder is murder, but I think that we can not demonize those resposible they are not monsters they are humans and if we want to take credit for those who excel in charity, sports, art etc we have to take resposibilty for those who are capable of such acts of violence. While I have a great amount of respect of those willing to take the guts to become a polititian I think that Governments have a lot problems and no longer do the job in which they were originally intended.
No one ever wants to pay for anything
We want secure airports, and rigid checks but not if it means we have to wait in line or actually check our own bags in.
We want the government to know when terrorists are planning attacks but we dont want them to listen in on our conversations.
We want more government spending but we dont want more taxes
We want to fight back against an assumed enemy but we are the first to cry out innocent before proven guilty.
We want to accept everyone and every culture as long as it doesn’t assume it is better that ours or offer anyone a differing point of view.
I mean this is a bad thing that has happened for USA but why is it so hard for anyone to accept that people from USA could be apart of this, or why the government secret service missed such a big operation?
Tuckerfan, Yes I like The Day The Earth Stood Still.
That Mr Carpenter was a very misunderstood person albeit I doubt if he was human.
Officeslave, yeah this is the reason for my starting this thread. I don’t know who to trust. The citizens can’t possibly know what their governments are doing in other countries, what alterior motives, or militaristic moves they may need to apply in order to insure that the U.S stays in tact. Also there is a government within a government. This one acts according to what It wants to enforce and the citizens don’t have any say in the matter. In fact it thinks the citizens are cattle/sheep, and should be recognized and moved about like a human dynamo, pointed in the direction they see fit to send it in. They can even decide to “bleed” it the way the see fit!
The foreigners I have spoken with, have said that some of the reasons Americans are not acceptable in other countries, is because we are gratingly irritating, cocky, desrepectful and we think “our --it don’t stink”. We lack humility etc.
If we were able to remain neutral in a lot of our affairs overseas and especially NOt favor Israel over other nations, we probably wouldn’t be the target of arab terrorism. We let in the very element and taught the very element that is seeking to level our society. And our military and the great thinkers :rolleyes: are still demure over whether to act, or just show them how big our guns are, but don’t ever fire them at the Taliban. Tsk Tsk.
America had something very special that no other place on the entire planet has. America and its way of life should be preserved by all nations and the taliban and bin Laden and all other splinter rebellious groups and poor lands should support her because of what she stands for.
America IS the haven/heaven that others dream about. It is a goal that many people wish they could reach in body, mind, spirit.
The dream you speak of is my nightmare.
Try to get out a little more often. Maybe if your average Joe American travelled a little more you would see America is no dream. As for your abortion opinions ,yes I agree what America needs is more poor unwanted kids, unloved, unhomed, uneducated and unguided . More crime, more jobless more social upheaval. But at least youll all be brainwashed into thinking youre in paradise. So happy days.
