I got this from another thread about Americans and fear…
I highlighted the “americans are LEAST trusting part”… this is not the first time I have seen this claim. In order not to hijack the other thread I started a new one.
Are americans in fact distrustful of their government ? (not only Bush please… but all “their” govts.)
Are they more distrustful than ANY other as Uzi suggests ? Why ?
If they are not the most or a lot… or not distrustful at all. Why do I see this once in a while ? (not commonly though)
Well my own take is that Americans, except of course for a few over armed militias, are trustful of their government. Maybe not incredibly trustful… but compared to other countries pretty much. In Brazil saying “corrupt politician” one is liable to hear that is unecessary repetition. To say Latin Americans are distrustful and skeptical about government is an understatement. Europeans seem to be unconcerned about their governments… but in a blasé way. Trustful wouldn’t be the word.
Do americans who view themselves are untrustful of government playing to the image of the “anti-establishment” american heroes ? Or maybe the strong notion americans used to have that government should be small and society/business free of interference ? Not liking Washington to me doesn’t seem the same as not trusting government anyway.
I would love to trust my government… or any government… but I read too many news for that.
I was unsure about using the word ‘trust’ when I posted. I think it is too harsh and doesn’t necessarily explain the situation correctly. If anyone can think of a better word let me know.
Given the US’s type of government with the its division of powers, I am inclined to think that the founding fathers wanted to make sure that no one person, or group of people, could manipulate the system to their benefit without some form of check on them. Was that because they were distrustful of their fellow man in general? Or, because they were good students of human nature and knew that someone would eventually come along and try to manipulate the system to their own benefit? Is this a lack of trust, or just common sense?
From ‘Cultures and Organizations: Software of the Mind’ by Geert Hofstede (1991) Pg. 68’
“The weaker the individualism in the citizens’ mental software, the greater the likelyhood of the state having a dominating role in the economic system. Political scientists have developed an index of press freedom for a large number of countries (Hofstede, 1980, p. 258; 1984, p. 270). This index is positively correleted with the IDV: the more individualist a country’s citizens, the less the likelihood of the freedom of its press being curbed by the authorities.”
While this doesn’t speak directly to ‘trust’ it addresses the common mindset of Americans. If you look at table 3.1 on page 53 of the same book you see the individualism index of 50 countries. The US scores the highest at 91, followed closely by Australia at 90, Great Britain at 89 and then a significant drop to 80 for Canada* and the Netherlands. Brazil is down at 38.
You say that Brazilians are distrustful of government. I would probably agree, but given their culture it is expected that the government will take a larger role in their affairs than in the US. So my question would be, is it the fact that the government is intervening in their lives, or is it how the government is intervening that is the cause of the distrust?
I would suggest that most Brazilians expect their government to intervene if it is in their interest to do so, while most Americans probably would look twice at the government doing something if it was obvious that individuals could do it for themselves just as easily.
*Regarding Canada. I think the lower score reflects more of an eastern bias and the further you go west the higher the score would become until you peaked at Alberta, tapering off somewhat in British Columbia. I think this addresses some of the issues that arise when Canadians talk about what is expected from their government. One region wants something the other finds silly.
As a nation, the United States was founded on the principle that government power could not be trusted to any one individual or group. Hence the whole system of checks and balances, where one branch of the government can be stopped by the other two if they feel power is being misused. Blind, unquestioning trust in the government is not in the DNA of the United States, IMO.
This is, of course, the classical ideal; there has been a trend in the last thirty years or so of shifting more power to the Executive branch, which is IMO not a healthy thing to do. Add to this the current domination of all three branches of government by right-wing extremists, and you’ve got the makings of a problem that the Founding Fathers never imagined…
Both answers talk about a political and structural “check and balances”… which in fact exist in most democracies… even Brazil. (Here it doesn’t work 100% due to political interests)
I was thinking more of american citizens themselves… for example Britney’s “just trust the govt. attitude” in F-9/11.
If the overt & unprovoked hostility & violence I have faced as a bureaucrat in Tennessee is anything to go by; yes, Americans are in fact distrustful of government.
Yes, I would say so. Not just the Federal government but also the state and local governments.
I don’t have an answer for this one. I do know I am often puzzled, if not completely baffled, when someone from outside the US expresses trust in their government and its officials to consistently do the right thing.
I disagree.
You don’t have to be a militia member to feel this way. As a comparison… my understanding is that London has thousands of security cameras, such than any Londoner is photographed dozens if not hundreds of times per day, and that most folks in London are either indifferent (“I’m not doing anything wrong, I’ve nothng to hide”) or view it as a positive (“This will reduce crime and keep us safe”). In Chicago, we also have cameras with a thousand more planned. People are NOT happy about this, they don’t want the government watching them. Several groups are actively fighting this and want the cameras removed. There are accusations that this is NOT done to keep the citizens safe but to generate revenue by, for example, documenting even the most minor traffic violations and imposing heavy fines. When much street parking was banned in the Chicago Loop - supposedly to protect against terrorist car/truck bombs - the rumor going around was that it was REALLY to force people to use the city-owned parking garages (which people avoided due to price) in order to generate revenue for the city.
For many of our immigrants, back in their native lands police and government were tools of oppression so they find it hard to trust any government or police force. Even for those of us born and raised here, we tend to NOT trust the police to arrive in time to assist us if a crime is committed against us.
So while there is an element of fear, it’s not just fear but a genuine, deep-seated mistrust of government at all levels. Not just a fear of corruption but also of incompetence on the part of the government.
The fact that in the 20th Century the US Federal government willingly exposed both military and civilians to atomic blasts and fall out, conducted medical experiments on people with neither their knowledge nor consent (Tuskegee Syphillis Experiment, various “studies” of the effects of LSD on people), and displaced thousands of people involuntarially to build our current interstate freeway system - in other words, willfully harmed the citizens it was supposed to be protecting - does not make even a well-educated, knowledgable, and thoughtful person inclined to trust the government regardless of which political party is in control at the moment.
Hmm… well we do have that history of rebellion in our past… but for the most part Americans pride themselves on being self-reliant (though this seems to be fading in some quarters in the last few decades). Back in the early Clinton years the Republicans, in a fit of pique, shut down the Federal government for several weeks. Almost no one noticed. From what I read, heard, and to a very small extent, seen Europeans expect and experience much more government involvement in their lives on a daily basis. In the US, outside of elections (which, arguably, the average citizen does not participate in) the average citizen seldom interacts with the Federal structure, pays attention to the State level basically when renewing a driver’s license, and worries more about traffic cops than any other manifestation of governmental authority. Provide you stay within the law, in the US you can pretty much go about your business without worrying about the government - you don’t have to ask to travel or justify your reasons (yes, I’m aware this is also the case in most democracies - but not in various other countries), you can buy whatever you can afford (and then some, if you have credit), live where you want, and do what you want… and the expectation is that as long as you’re law-abiding what you do is none of the government’s business. Of course, that latter sentiment has been challeged by the 9/11 attacks. Even before that, there was erosion of personal freedom (which includes the freedom to make what others perceive as mistakes) with such things as mandatory seat belt and helmet laws… which, despite their real benefits, have been overturned in several jurisdictions and are still by no means universal in this country. Ditto the Federally imposed 55 mph speed limit on freeways - which were largely ignored anyway - being overturned in recent years. Americans do not like to be told what to do, even if it is intended to be for their own good. (Which clashes badly with the “sue everyone! Accidents don’t happen, it has to be delibrate!” mentality that is also at work, but that would be yet another thread)
When I was in the U.S. recently, what really struck me was the difference in dependence on government. Consider the monuments in NY Central Park. Most if not all of those monuments have been erected by private individuals in a desire to contribute to the common well-being. In other words, the attitude on display is that our society and environment are what we (private indivuduals) make of them. You never see that in this country. People would think that “government” is responsible for maintaining public parks as well as all the other stuff of a functioning society.
Which brings me to another tangent. How about the trustwortiness of governments? My current country ranks very high (and much higher than the U.S.) on this list. Civil servants in this country are really well-trained. All of them up and down the hierarchy realize that they are there to serve the public. Government agencies actually have pledges to provide top-notch service, quickly correct mistakes, etc. I have amply confirmed this in my dealings with government institutions both as a private citizen and as a supplier. High-level government managers here are really driven to improve their operations, innovate, apply technology, save money etc. The contrast, with other countries as well as with commercial enterprises, is dramatic.
I would say about 50% of anything I initially decide to post on get cancelled because of the same reason. Unfortunately, I am sure that 90% of what I do post should end up the same way for pretty much the same reasons.
Are, when the government wants your money.
Ain’t, when the government wants you to fight in a foreign land.
Just the opposite of my country, in fact! And I’m not saying that’s wrong.
Disclaimer: I may be completely wrong, as I often am. It’s been ten years since I lived in the United States now, and I hung out mostly with San Francisco hippies in my American years. But you knew that.
It seems to me that distrust in the government really started with Watergate. (On a side note, I really hate “-gate” being attached to every new scandal. The Watergate was a hotel. AFAIK, there was no “Koreagate” hotel, e.g.) Now, I was pretty darned young in the 1960s. Pretty oblivious to politics. But in retrospect it seems that large numbers of people were not only distrusting of the government, they gathered in large numbers to protest policies. Vietnam. Civil Rights. But then we had Nixon’s scandal and the relevations of Hoover’s skullduggery coming out at the same time. Since that time, it seems, Americans have taken a distrust toward the federal government.
A couple of bumper stickers that were popular in the 1980s were “I love my country… But distrust my government” and “Question Authority”. I saw a red, white and blue bumper sticker on a car the other day that echoed the former.
…in many US states, we do NOT have democracy! Take the state I live in (Massachusetts). It is a one-party oligarchy, where the (democratic party) politicians regularly IGNORE the voters. We have a Republican governor (Mitt Romney) who his trying to reform the corrupt state government, but he is continually thwarted by the Speaker of the House (Tom Finneran, who wields the real power here). The democratic party state machine is concerned with two things:
-jobs for patronage
-increasing the size of the governemnt (see above)
They don’t give a damn about the taxpayers, and every time a tax-limitation initiative makes it onto the ballot, they find sneaky ways to defeat it!
Speaker of the House Finneran comes from a “rotten” borough-he regulary wins by a huge majority, because anytime someobne wants to run against him, he gives that person a posh job oin the state.
So, there is no real democracy here at all.
Well first I’ll point to the Britnety “We should just trust government” from Michael Moore’s F-9/11. I’ve seen that kind of talk A LOT. Basically government has more info and knows best. I know Bush has gotten this kind of reaction a lot… Still the fact that 51% of americans still think Iraq was worthwhile is a bit baffling to me.
I was maybe 10 years old when on a trip to the USA I noticed the number of shoppers was quite low. I was told that there had been attempts at raising prices and that the president/govt. told consumers to stop shopping in order to hold down prices. People followed that suggestion ! (I don’t remember this episode too well… was quite some time ago…) In Brazil if the president told us to stop buying stuff just about everyone would start spree shopping and stocking food due to sheer distrust of government.
The Supreme Court is hardly dominated by “right-wing extremists”. Roe v. Wade is still in effect and just this year Lawrence v. Texas was decided in a manner not at all compatible with “right-wing extremists”.
