Who could Sanders beat in a general election?

[ElvisL1ves]

Straight out of the RNC’s talking points list.

[Leaper]

Honestly, I find myself agreeing with post 10. I know the conservative media machine will operate regardless of nominee, but it seems much easier to work against Sanderes than any other major figure in this race, for reasons varied and both already mentioned and not.

And frankly, I’m a little turned off by the… enthusiasm of some of his supporters (not necessarily anyone here). He’s not, and he’s not going to be, some kind of messiah, and I think talking him up like he is could work against him in a general, especially since he’d only be one for one side of the political aisle. Of course, he could work to make sure the voters know that his side is the one that’s better for the average voter, but that’s always a hard road to hoe.

Personally, I’d rather have someone in the White House whom I’m only pretty sure is not going to dismantle the health care system or SS, not going to take us to war in the Middle East, annoy going to ignore global warming as a hoax, and not going to try to make being gay illegal, than someone who openly and proudly states that they’ll do the opposite on every one of those things. That’s what makes this nomination fight difficult for me, because I honestly can’t fathom progressives who’d rather watch someone running the country who’ll do those things above than support anyone but Sanders. I mean, I can understand their point, but what’s the “long term” if we’re all wading through two feet of salt water?

[BrainGlutton]

The rise of the “self-proclaimed socialist”: Why reporters shouldn’t be so surprised that Bernie Sanders’ appeal is growing.

Few Americans consider themselves socialists, but the number who have only lukewarm feelings about capitalism has grown. A Pew Research Center survey found that while only 31 percent of Americans had a positive reaction to the word “socialism,” barely 50 percent of Americans had a positive view of capitalism, and 40 percent had a negative response. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement.

The Pew poll found that young Americans are about equally divided in their attitudes toward socialism and capitalism. Among 18-to-29-year-olds, 49 percent had a positive view of socialism, while 47 percent had a positive view of capitalism. Similarly, only 43 percent had a negative view of socialism, compared with 47 percent who had a negative view of capitalism.

After more than half a century of Cold War hysteria and post-Cold War propaganda against socialism from the business and education establishments, the mainstream media and both political parties, the fact that almost half of Americans are willing to vote for a socialist for president is quite remarkable.

Although few Americans embrace socialism, they are less likely to demonize socialism than they were 40 years ago, when the Cold War was still raging, or even 20 years ago, when the Cold War was still fresh in people’s minds. That’s why you see a greater willingness to consider “socialism” as something worth thinking about among younger Americans who weren’t as exposed to the Cold War.

Young Americans don’t equate socialism with Communist China or the former Soviet Union. Things have changed since the Berlin Wall fell in 1989. If people now in their 20s and 30s have any image of socialism at all, it is probably northern Europe, particularly the Scandinavian countries. They know that these societies embrace universal health insurance, childcare, paid family leave and paid vacations, more equality for women, and more progressive taxes. These countries have less poverty, more equality and more social mobility. Even Donald Trump recently praised Scotland’s single-payer health system.

[Morgenstern]

@Shayna

Talk to me in five months, after more of the country has had a chance to hear him speak and watch him debate against Clinton. …*

You mean when his campaign is flat broke and he’s looking for all the grass root support that he’s just not charismatic enough to gain?

[Leaper]

Hm, I’ve been thinking hard about my visceral reactions to Sanders — including, perhaps especially, the support he’s getting that I’m seeing on social media. It feels flash-in-the-pan to me, and I’m not 100% sure I can articulate why. The old stereotype that young people don’t vote? The assumption that even if they did, they might not outnumber the baby boomers and old people who DO see socialism as “Soviet Union and Red China”, and who vote in proportions no one questions? (I wonder if those same proportions are, or will be, consistent over time. But that’s a question out of the scope of this thread.)

Or maybe it’s because of the level of enthusiasm. I know it’s a paradox, but the Messiah-like gushing I’m seeing doesn’t feel sustainable. I suppose this is how conservatives must’ve felt about Obama in '08, but this is different.

Or maybe it’s because I think Sanders is so far shaping up to be a popular candidate just by showing up and speaking his mind. That seems too “easy” to me, and tells me little about how good a President he’d be, especially dealing with the pack of wolverines who’re gerrymandered so tightly into their Congressional seats they might as well have roots. Perhaps this is something that could be remedied by learning more about him (I just realized I have no idea what his views on foreign policy are), but that’s where I am right now.

[BrainGlutton]

@Morgenstern

You mean when his campaign is flat broke and he’s looking for all the grass root support that he’s just not charismatic enough to gain?

He has grassroots support and he don’t need charisma to get it. It’s based on his politics.

[DSeid]

@BrainGlutton

I think the real point of Sanders’ campaign is to change that.

And he might succeed. Not enough to win, but it will make a real difference down the road.

@Leaper

… I honestly can’t fathom progressives who’d rather watch someone running the country who’ll do those things above than support anyone but Sanders. I mean, I can understand their point, but what’s the “long term” if we’re all wading through two feet of salt water?

With Leaper here.

Clinton is the same Clinton she was in 08: someone who would be a fine President and not someone who would be a great one. Like GH Bush she lacks that vision thing. She does not inspire. That public face, that ability to preach it, to sell it, is her weak link to me. And it is an important part of the job. I’d love to have someone in there who is representing enough of what I believe who can also sell it and inspire us all to become greater, better, than we are.

But above all else I want someone in there who will not do our country great harm. Who will not endorse intolerance and set us back decades. We need someone in there who will prevent a GOP congress from implementing a horrific agenda and who will not stack the Supreme Court with arch conservatives.

I want someone running as a Democrat who will win.

I was confident Obama would. Sanders is no Obama.

@Shayna

Talk to me in five months, after more of the country has had a chance to hear him speak and watch him debate against Clinton. …

Maybe. Right now polls mean virtually nothing. He’s been a darling, not criticized and not attacked. Media avoids attacking the underdogs.

Self-described socialist. Six years older than Hillary … would be 74 by Election Day. Would have all of Big Money (including traditionally Democratic Big Money) throwing all they got against him. A first major party Jewish candidate and being Jewish would be the least of his problems.

Yeah let’s see in five months, maybe six. If he can’t pull off a win in New Hampshire and being close in Iowa he is done. If he can he has to be at least close in South Carolina. If he can do that then maybe the country is ready for an old Jewish Socialist from Vermont.

But a GOP President with this Congress is to me the stuff of nightmares. And rehabilitating the label “socialist” does not offset that.