Who Defines Pop Culture Relevancy/Zeitgeist?

Cafe Society
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How does one tell if a movie, TV series, actor, or pop culture property is still relevant, known by “the mainstream” (or just Generation Y, as if they are more important), or still "part of the zeitgeist (whatever that means)?

Can cultural relevancy be measured or defined? Do bloggers, magazine writers, podcasters, forums, and pop TV documentaries trump box office numbers, DVD sales, critic average reviews, audience reviews, Google trends, awards, and franchise spin-off materials when it comes to maintaining relevance? How does a movie create a cultural revolution, as Kevin Smith is currently gushing about Star Wars? Is it just about kids at the playground? Why are they valued more than the old timers who remember the classic stuff?

In other words, who sets relevancy and longevity? Is it about other creators and artists being inspired by the material to create more? Is it about sequels and merchandising (which is so commercialized)? Is it because it is referenced and talked about ad infinitum by anyone remotely involved or inspired by it?

How do this account for the internet having hardcore, die-hard niche fan clubs for virtually every pop culture property that ever existed? You may think that He-Man is a two-year 1980s fad (perhaps you only heard of the Filmation cartoon), but there are thousands of current Masters of the Universe fans who have inspired Mattel to create new figures and new books have been published, including DC Comics and Dark Horse hard covers. Who is to say MOTU is not culturally relevant, when it has a strong sub-culture of paying customers? Yet Average Joe on the street never heard of the rebooted cartoon in 200x, and may mumble something about Dolph Lundgren if you are lucky.

Are questions such as these simply another way of asking how many angels dance on the head of a pin? If so, my friends and others online sure waste a lot of energy debating it.

There was a whole thread about movies which made a big cultural splash but were allegedly soon “forgotten” (by whom?) Movies that made a big pop culture splash but are now disporportionately forgotten - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board

Someone mentions that Avatar is not relevant. This is echoed in Forbes:

*It absolutely almost immediately vanished from the popular zeitgeist leaving almost no pop culture impact to speak of. It did not inspire a passionate following, or a deluge of multimedia spin-offs that has kept the brand alive over the last five years. Few today will even admit to liking it, and its overall effect on the culture at large is basically non-existent. It came, it crushed all long-term box office records, and it vanished almost without a trace…

It did not become a cultural touchstone in any real sense. Kids don’t play Avatar on the playground nor with action figures in their homes. There is little-if-any Avatar-themed merchandise in any given store. Most general moviegoers couldn’t tell you the name of a single character from the film, nor could they name any of the actors who appeared in it… Avatar didn’t inspire a legion of would-be Avatar rip-offs, save perhaps for Walt Disney’s disastrous John Carter. It didn’t set the mold for anything that followed save its use of 3D which turned the post-conversion tool into a valuable way to boost box office overseas.

I bring this up because I’ve had a couple of friends tell me that the new Star Wars is so embraced by fans that the second trilogy and Lucas alternate versions are now irrelevant because they did not capture the spirit of the zeitgeist, like this version did. I just don’t know how to even tackle that statement.

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There’s not going to be any official recognition of pop culture or a bright line test that says “this is” and “this isn’t.”

The reasoning in the Forbes article is what you have to look at - are people talking about it, spending money on it, interacting with it, playing with it, etc? Star Wars is a great example because it remained a mainstay of culture even when it went ten years without theatrical releases. “Luke, I’m your father” is still relevant after thirty years.

Your friend’s statement about the prequels can only be made true or false as time passes. It’s true that the Star Wars prequels offended a great deal of the existing Star Wars fan base, but in the sense of pop culture, the fan base is only the tip of the iceberg. Do little kids know who Jar Jar Binks is? As long as that’s true, the prequels are part of the pop culture. In fact, being terrible movies might actually HELP them - after all, the pop culture/zeitgeist isn’t just concerned with what is “good.” Plan 9 from Outer Space is in the culture only to the extent that we all recognize it as an example of a terrible movie. Without that recognition, it would have been forgotten.

If you want an example of Star Wars things that have been forgotten, think of the Ewok movie and the Christmas special. Those have truly been forgotten (in the pop culture sense) and the prequels obviously have not. My personal opinion is that the prequels will never be forgotten to the same extent, but only time will tell.

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I agree with dracoi, there is no set line of what is relevant or not. And of course it depends on who you ask; if you want to know if a movie is relevant, and you ask me, or my 17-year-old cousin, or my mom, you’ll likely get different answers.

Box office and popularity at the time of release doesn’t really indicate how relevant a movie will be further down the road. Avatar is a good example, since it’s not often discussed other than in discussions about box office grosses in general, or in news stories about Cameron working on the sequels.

That also makes me think of another Sam Worthington movie, the Clash of the Titans remake. It made a lot of money, and spawned a sequel, though I’m guessing that most people couldn’t remember the name if they even remembered that there is a sequel. But it’s otherwise made no impact, it’s like a ripple in a pond. Clash of the Titans came out the same year as Inception, and Inception is better remembered and regarded, but there’s no blogger or critic or anyone that declared “we will not discuss Clash of the Titans anymore, but Inception can still be referenced and discussed.” It’s just that Inception is more interesting and stands the test of time better, and Clash of the Titans is more of a popcorn movie that’s forgotten pretty quickly.

Of course, things could always change. In 30 years, maybe Inception will be mostly forgotten and Christopher Nolan movies are only watched and loved by a few film nerds. And maybe there will be a young Quentin Tarantino type watches and loves Clash of the Titans and is inspired by it, and when he releases his masterpiece in 30 years it will revive interest in the movie that inspired him. You can’t know for sure what will be and what will stay popular and/or well-regarded.

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I generally agree with dracoi and Sam Lowry, but I’d like to also address this:

I don’t think that this sort of debate is a waste of energy, even if there isn’t any real answer to be had. It both allows you to find like minded people, and convert others. Sharing it is pretty great in and of itself.

ETA: But! Be ready to defend your preference, and weather criticism whether you can defend it or not.

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It is and isn’t a waste of energy in the same way as simply experiencing popular culture is and isn’t a waste of energy.

Many people over the last century have disparaged the rise of popular culture to be the dominant culture. They consider all the time spent on it to be wasted. Many other people strongly disagree.

Arguing about popular culture is really a part of extending the original enjoyable experience. It’s no more intrinsically good or bad than watching. It’s not a subject that can be settled, but neither is philosophy and few people would call that an intrinsic waste of time.

You put your own value on your time. A waste of time for one person is a central life experience for another. You can vary from one side to the other over a lifetime. Heck, over a conversation.

The zeitgeist works in its own mysterious ways. I’ve been studying how popular culture works for most of my lifetime, and the consensus is that nobody ever has understood what becomes big and what doesn’t, what lasts and what doesn’t, or what creates cults and what doesn’t.