Who Is The Greatest Hero Of All-Time In Middle-Earth?

Cafe Society
21

That’s a really good question.

I’d have to agree with Frodo and Sam - they did the most with the least of anybody in all the tales.

After them, we get into the more traditional heroes. I can’t decide on the order, but the ones I admire most are:
Beren, who undertook an impossible task (knowing it was impossible) and achieved it, even if it was achieved with help from friends, and I really liked the way he answered Thingol: “Death you may give me earned or unearned; but the names I will not take from you of baseborn, nor spy, nor thrall. By the ring of Felagund, given to Barahir my father on the battlefields of the North, my house has not earned such names from any Elf, be he king or no.”
Hurin, who fought valiantly - alone - against unnumbered enemies, only to live the remainder of his life in misery.
Finrod, for standing up to the sons of Feanor and going knowingly to his death to fulfil a vow of gratitude, even at the risk of his kingdom;
Fingolfin, for a whole lot, not the least of which is challenging Morgoth, one of the Valar, to combat, making all Morgoth’s servants afraid, and fighting so fiercely that even the victors didn’t ever want to talk about it again;
Fingon, for bringing peace between the sons of Finwe by his rescue of his friend and cousin Maedhros from Thangorodrim, even at the height of anger between the sons of Feanor and the sons of Indis.

Fingolfin, that’s a good list, and I think you could make a good argument for almost any of them. But I don’t really buy Elrond as a hero. He followed Gil Galad, hid in Rivendell behind the power of his ring, didn’t want to fight Isengard or Mordor, etc. Basically I see him as too complacent. He didn’t concern him with the events of his time except to give advice. He didn’t really even help Thorin & Co on Bilbo’s first quest, except to give them a good meal. Refused to allow Aragorn to marry Arwen until Aragorn claimed his throne. Basically he didn’t put himself at any risk, and didn’t really do much of note - caring only for his little slice of the past ages and nothing else. Even Galadriel, who was guilty of many of the same things, at least was more helpful to the fellowship than Elrond was.**
Side note (a bit of a hijack, but probably not enough for another thread) -
The bearers of the Three seemed very self-centered and isolationist. Cirdan just worried about his havens, never playing much of a role in anything since bringing aid during the destruction of Beleriand. Galadriel cared for Lothlorien and did nothing else. And I covered Elrond above. The only one with a ring who accomplished anything at all, beyond tending his own personal concerns, was Gandalf, with Cirdan’s ring. Is it possible that Sauron’s will was actually accomplished through the Three, same as with the Seven Dwarf rings – that even though he couldn’t directly control the bearers, they were drawn into a complacent, care-free state, minding their own realms and ignoring the events unfolding in the outside world?

22

Joe_Cool
This may be a better topic for a different thread, but regarding the elven rings and their bearers:

I read a critical analysis that I found compelling regarding why the Elves in the third age were so inactive. The elves by the advent of Third age had seen over 5000 years pass on middle earth, closer to 10000 by its end. You could make the argument it was likely even more than this as many had been around before the Sun first rose. The power and energy of their youth had been spent overthrowing Morgoth and Sauron (first time around). Even for elves, it does not seem a reach to call them world weary at this point. Everything around them had changed from when they were young - lands and forests both had passed.

The argument by this critic is that part of the reason they were summoned to Aman is that because of their nature, they were more naturally suited to live in the undying lands, where not only they, but the plants and animals around them aged but slowly if not at all. Both Elrond & Galadriel speak many times of “when the world was young”. The critic makes the point that both Elrond & Galadriel used the power of the rings to create places where time passed very slowly - places that elves would thus feel more comfortable in. The other, non-elven characters make several comments about how time seems to pass slowly, or not at all in Lorien & Rivendell.

I don’t think it was Sauron’s will at all - simply that the elves were increasingly withdrawn from the aging world with the passage of time. Elrond & Galadrial performed very positive functions in that they gave the west centers of resistance to coalesce around. But the power of the elves to resist had waned with the passage of time. I look at them more like staff officers, rather than field generals. Both do a lot behind the scenes to further the cause, but they no longer have the means to actively fight Sauron in the field. Although I would point out that Galadrial threw down the walls of Dol Guldor at the end of the War of the Ring.

Cirdan is a special case. He had dwelt by the sea even in the First Age, and other than some minor involvement in the end of that era, had never really been interested in anything other than his ships. Which is why, I suspect, he passed the ring on to Mithrandir - he knew what the Istari were, and that they, better than he, could put the ring to use.

23

I vote with photopat - Frodo and Sam, with Bilbo as runner-up.

So what? Morgoth was “the mightiest of the Ainur” (Silmarillion, p. 340), but that didn’t make him a hero

Remember, “Noldor” meant “wise” but “wise in the sense of possessing knowledge, not in the sense of possessing sagacity, sound judgment” (Silmarillion, p. 344). Fëanor may have had the greatest knowledge, but he completely lacked good judgment - not a heroic combination.

Fëanor was evil, in my opinion.

24

I’d argue Feanor was a hero in the Tragic Greek sense - Pride was his fatal flaw. That’s why I include him on my list.

25

Yes, so if the English speaker pronounces it with the e silent, as they could do if the ë is not shown, They would say “Awr” instead of the correct “Ow Ray”, saying “lembas-making fork” instead of “day”.

26

C’mon, guys, what is the point of ranking them? Each hero lived in a particular time and place, and his/her chances to do daring deeds and save the world are limited just by that. You don’t want heroes starting wars during peaceful times just so they can show us their fighting chops and make a heroes’ list, do you? You don’t want someone who has screwed up to give up doing the honorable thing for the rest of his life because the screw-up boots him off the list?

One of the great things about Middle-Earth is that it was deep enough to give us heroes in every age, in every circumstance, and from every race (except of course for orcs which are universally and forever beyond the pale, slaughterable without thought, the perfect black and white enemy) and with human flaws in almost every case. To even want to award an “all-time greatest” designation seems to me to undercut JRRT’s whole point: everyone in every circumstance should try their damnedest to do the right thing no matter how hard it is, and that while this may sometimes take the form of fighting, it doesn’t always. Doing the right thing is important, and even ordinary people who are not “heroes” can do so.

Sorry to be a wet blanket. I know you guys are just speculating for fun. Please continue.

27

I’m going to have to nominate Maeglin as Middle Earth’s foremost anti-hero. :slight_smile:

28

I don’t know…Feanor will definitely give Maeglin a run for his money in that contest.

29

this actually was addressed somewhere in HOMES. I’ll have to find it. It may take a while.

30

The recipe for Lembas is in Unfinished Tales somewhere. God is in the details.

31

Whoever it was, I’m glad to see one character has been omitted from the list for being undeserving: The Editor. He could have stepped up and been a hero, but nooooooooooo…

32

One thing you can be thankful for – it was Fingolfin who made the OP here…

…not Sauron!! :smiley:

33

God? No wonder mortals can’t make it. Where the heck am I going to get two tablespoons of God?

34

A recipe for God stock:

cut a swatch off the Shroud of Turin and boil it 'til it dissolves. Then let it continue to boil down to a thick paste. Strain it through a gold plated fine sieve (but don’t throw away any chunks, they can be placed in small glass vials and sold as reliquaries) and store in a lead container with suitable Hebrew inscriptions from the Kaballah. Freeze. It’ll keep for approximately 2000 years at 30 degrees F.

35

It seems to me that “heroism” should refer to one’s personal deeds, rather than acting as a general/king/marshall/etc. of others. So of the original list, I’ll strike off Turgon, Finrod, Eomer, and Elrond. Admittedly, they all saw battle, but they didn’t really do anything remarkable in battles. Maedros and Feanor, I’d say, ended up working more woe than weal, so eliminate them, too. And in the War of the Ring, I would argue that Meriadoc, whom you didn’t mention, played a larger role than Legolas or Gimli, but even so, his deeds were eclipsed by the team of Frodo and Samwise (or even each individually). You might make a case for Aragorn, considering all his decades of adventuring before the War, but I’d still favor Frodo and Sam.

For all-time greatest, though, I’m going to have to go with the team of Beren, Luthien, and Huan (so what if he’s a dog? Dogs can be heroic). Their quest was similar to Frodo and Sam’s (covert mission into the heart of the Dark Lord’s realm), but they were up against a more powerful and fearsome enemy by far. And while it certainly took some major cojones for Fingolfin to challange Morgoth, he did lose. Bravery is great, but succesful bravery is better. Besides, the fact that Beren, Luthien, and Huan were motivated soley by love seems (to me, at least) to thereby render their actions somehow more heroic.

36

Beren and Luthien were quite brave.

Frodo and friends were courageouss (no, I can’t spell, shut up)

But, Fingolfin, that was the absolute most heroic single act of all. Even the Valar didn’t show up alone. Fingolfin, he had balls.

37

I dunno, I wouldnt trust any less an authority than Iluvatar :smiley:

38

One could argue that Finarfin was the most heroic. Yes, I know he didn’t return to middle-earth. But he recognized the whole Oath of Fëanor was a bad idea, as was the whole flight of the Noldor, and he had the courage to swallow his pride and do the right thing, and return to Valmar to beg pardon.

39

Wait, wait, wait- Glorfindel single-handedly slew Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, at the fall of Gondolin. It was his ‘holding the pass’, so to speak, that bought time for Idril, Tuor, and a bunch of other people to escape. He sacrificed his life to save a bunch of people. Pretty brave, IMHO. (Of course, Glorfindel turns up again to save Frodo at the Fords of Bruinen; whether or not this is the same Glorfindel is quite a heated debate among Tolkien scholars.)

Turgon didn’t really do much, quite frankly. Sure, he built a big ol’ city, and sure, it was pretty and all, but he just hid behind his big rocks and refused to come out. For anything. Not too mch of a hero. He ofught bravely, sure, but everybody in Middle-Earth seems to fight bravely, so this doesn’t mean much.

Feanor- not even a contender in my mind. He was arrogant, proud, and stupid. He made the Silmarils, but in the end, they caused nothing but trouble. Better they should never have been made at all, for what anyone actually got out of them. His sons jumped on his bandwagon and spent the next several thousand years making endles trouble for everyone. Feh to Feanor.

Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo- each carried the ring. Bilbo for a long time, and was remarkably resistant to it. He willingly gave it up to another person, something no one in the history of ME ever did, ever. Pretty cool. Frodo and Sam volunteered to take the Ring to the fires of Mordor- also very brave. Frodo’s little slip at the end shouldn’t count too much against him. These guys may qualify as the bravest heroes of ME.

Luthien, Beren, and Huan Definitely very brave. Luthien could kick ass and take names- she had the power to put Morgoth under a spell! But, she was half-Maia, so maybe this shouldn’t mean too much. Beren is kind of dumb- all he does is fall in love and go to a ridiculous length to get the girl. Brave, I suppose, but not exactly selfless. I tend to define heroism as being largely a selfless act of bravery or courage, so IMHO, Beren doesn’t really qualify. Now, Huan was super-cool. He was elfless and brave, and he died trying to save everyone from Carcharoth. A good dog.

Fingon, Finrod, and Fingolfin- brave dudes. Very selfless. I applaud them. They’re definitely contenders for most heroic.

Legolas, Gimli, Aragorn, various LotR characters- all fought bravely and helped Frodo and/or the rest of Middle-Earth. Cool, praise-worthy, but not the most heroic ever.

Elrond- helped Gil-galad. Spent the rest of his time hiding in Rivendell and feeling self-important. Not a hero.

Galadriel- helped the quest. Another one hiding and feeling self-important. More helpful than Elrond, but still not a hero.

Finarfin- Smart, but not a hero. Stayed home and watched the game.

About lembas…I remember from HoME (forget which volume) that lembas was made of special magic corn (which could be any grain, not neceessarily maize) given to the Elves by Yavanna. The responsibility for making lembas was left to the matriarch of the house or tribe- usually no one else made it. The corn was big and golden, and no insects, pests, or pathogens went near it. The Elves almost never gave it to other races, so it was a big deal when they did. Selfish bastards. :wink:

40

By that standard, why is Melkor not on the list? Same fatal flaw; same original position of pre-eminence in his group; same evil flowing from his pride and rebellion.

Fëanor was a mini-Melkor: rebelled against the Valar; lusted for the Silmarills, placing his ownership of them over the good of the community and the chance to restore the light of the Trees; killed his own kin at the battle of the boats, since they stood in his way while trying to get the Silmarills back; brought war and bloodshed to Middle Earth.

Melkor and Fëanor were united in their pride, their rebellion, and their lust for the Silmarills.