As we all know, nobody was more responsible for the victory of the West than Gandalf/Mithradir/Olorin/PickANameAlready. But even the White Wizard could not have accomplished this feat alone. Which brings us to the thread topic: How would you rank characters in terms of their importance in winning the Ringwar, and why?
My own nominees:
1. The aforementioned Grey Pilgrim.
He set everything in motion and kept everybody else on track. 2. (tie) Frodo, Sam, and Gollum
Sauron was unbeatable (by Gondor and its allies, anyway) militarily; if the One Ring hadn’t been destroyed, nothing else would have mattered. I can’t imagine the Ring going into the Fire if any of these three had been absent. 5. Aragorn
On the other hand, without our other man of many names, Frodo & company would have had nothing to come back to.
Beyond the top 5, though, I have trouble choosing. Anybody have any input?
You’ve got to have Meriadoc Brandybuck and Eowyn of Rohan on the ballot somewhere…remember, the Witch King of Angmar could not be killed by “the hand of man”. If it weren’t for them, Aragorn would have been in big trouble…
Clearly, but WHERE? The only thing that’s clear to me is that Merry has to rank ahead ahead of Eowyn, as he was also involved in the rousing of the Ents; and I’m not sure whether Theoden, Eomer, and Faramir should rank higher or lower than these three.
First off, as much as I like and admire Legolas, he and Gimli were interchangeable with many others of their races. They should not be in the top 10.
I agree with 1-5.
Galadriel should be 6 or 7. she was a major mover and shaker and did much to move things along in the long struggle against Sauron.
The same should be said for Elrond.
I think Merry, Faramir and Fangorn should round this out.
Honorable mentions to Éowyn for her part in slaying the Witch King, Theoden for his final ride, Bilbo for rescuing the Ring and giving it up and having the pity to spare Gollum.
King Bard of Dale and Captain of Laketown that destroyed the last great dragon with his mighty shot.
Éomer for fighting so valiantly and doing what was right even when it violated the intent of orders.
Then I would get around to Legolas, Gimli & Pippin.
I was about to castigate you for rating Pippin higher than Eowyn. Fortunately I read for comprehension first.
I can’t believe I forgot Bilbo, but personally I’d eliminate him. His contribution was mostly inadvertent, and I’d like to restrict the list to people who actually had a clue what they were doing.
I also think Faramir does not belong in the top 10. Are you putting him there because of his role in setting Frodo on the right path? Even so, I’d give Eowyn his spot.
Éowyn had one short great moment and it would not have happened without Merry. I think I also take some points away as she was basically attempting suicide by battle and could overcome the fear of the Witch King as she did not fear death but welcomed it.
Faramir took on the role and chores of both brothers and pushed himself to near death in protecting Minas Tirith. He took every mission while never being able to do enough to satisfy his father. His ambushes in Ithilien were very effective and his attempted to hold Osgiliath bought Minas Tirith a bit more time. He saved many lives as Gondor’s leading Captain. Try to think beyond the main narrative of the book to what we learned of Faramir’s act once Boromir set north to Imladris (Rivendell). He was more important as the primary Captain in the field of the chief foe of Sauron than Éowyn, at least he was in my opinion.
Jim (Hopefully **QtM ** arrives soon, I am interested in his take.)
It has to be Gollum. I mean, if you look at the bottom line, he gave up his life so that the One Ring could be destroyed; and but for him, Frodo and Sam would never have successfully crossed into Mordor in the first place. Without that act, nothing else would have mattered. The final words of Denethor to Gandalf would have held true: Go forth and fight! Vanity. For a little space you may triumph on the field, for a day. But against the Power that now arises there is no victory.
As awesome as Aragorn, Eowyn, Merry and Gandalf were on the Pelennor Fields, it was only the difference between Gondor standing or destroyed, as long as Frodo, Sam and Gollum completed their journey to save the world at large.
Right up there next to him would be Frodo and Sam, for sparing his life many times when he was in their power. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.
Sam also deserves special mention, as he remains (with Bilbo) the only Ringbearers ever to voluntarily give up the Ring to another.
Sheesh, you’ve all forgotten Treebeard. Treebeard dropped Saruman - with the help of his tree mates, but Treebeard was the one who finally got them uprooted (har) enough to do the right thing, and Treebeard kept leading by example. The way it worked out worked very well for the good guys; kept Sauron confused and misinformed until Aragorn could challenge him through the Palantir, which got all the forces of evil drawn out from Mordor for Sauron’s final attack. Aragorn would not even have had the Palantir if Treebeard had stayed home for a few more drinks.
And we haven’t yet mentioned another big assist from Treebeard; sending out the Huorns to save the day at Helm’s Deep. Sure, Gandalf’s recommendation, but Treebeard followed through on it.
However, I comletely agree. Treebeard was very important. If Merry and Pippin did not act as the Catalyst to get Treebeard acting hasty then Rohan would have either fallen or at least not been capable of mustering to aid Gondor.
The march of the Ents was thrilling and Saruman was completely unprepared for it.
No love for the army of the undead? I guess they constitute a unit, rather than an individual character, but these dudes cleaned shop on the plains and left me thinkin’…“Jeez, if Theoden hadn’t been in such a rush to get to the city he would have had his whole army intact instead of needlessly wasting the greater bulk of it trying to take on giant war elephants”.
What you are describing is from the movie and not how it really played out in the book. There were many changes made by Peter Jackson, the oversize Oliphants being among them. Theoden was braver if just as foolhardy in a different way in the book.
Jim, while I echo your sentiment about books versus those imaginary movies I despise so much that their mere mention of then sends me into a venomous rage in which I yell and scream and rant and froth and mutter and bite and eventually kill the nearest person who resembles Peter Jackson
:: stops typing just long enough to snap the neck of passing beardeded fellow in shorts ::
I must take issue with your SLANDER of Theoden King. Er, libel. Defamation. Whatever. Why in the name of Tulkas are you calling him reckless?
Well I said foolhardy rather than reckless. In his triumphant final charge he got caught up in the moment and charged well ahead of his own men. This is a classic foolhardy move that usually ends poorly, in reality and classic legends.
You’ll note that I have Gollum tied with Frodo & Sam for second place. If any of the three of them had been absent, we’d all be speaking the Black Speech today.
Well, not me. I’d have a plan to escape. And Qadcop the Mercoptan, What Exit?, and **Elendil’s Heir ** would probably commit suicide rather than submit. But the rest of you guys.
As for the rest of your post: I agree that without the action of those three hobbits, Sauron wins no matter what Elessar et al do. But without the actions of Aragorn & his crew, Frodo’s victory is way past being pyrrhic.
I think I’ll adjust my 10 ten to a top 1 list, to allow for ties, as follows.
Merry ranks so because he has major roles in 4 disconnected events: the fall of the Witch-King, the rousing of the Ents, the conspiracy to keep Frodo from going on his quest alone, and the Scouring. Though I’d say Eowyn is at least as important in slaying the High Nazgul as young Master Brandybuck, he simply contributes more overall. Also, I’ve always seen him as the true mover behind the conspiracy to keep Frodo from going off alone, and I don’t think Frodo makes as far as Lothlorien without his young friends’ moral support.
Get a grip, skald. So PJ’s version of the LOTR doesn’t match yours. Go make your own movie. I promise to watch it. And not laugh.
I vote for Aragorn–and not solely for Viggo lust which clouds my vision and makes ordinary sentences difficult to speak. The whole POINT of the matter was to get him back on the throne. He could have been a wonk like the Prince of the Scottish laird in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but instead he was a mench. Such a mench he was!
:: looks up controls of Hapless Victim Corpse Vaporizer O-Mat ::
Eh? What was that?
elanorigby, It’s not a matter of not liking his visions. I actually liked his version of FotR & TTT; and I simply adore his (and Miranda Otto’s) presentation of Eowyn. But RotK bugged me, not as an bad adaptation, but AS A BAD MOVIE. In some places it makes changes that are simply distracting and annoying (I’m thinking of that idiotic flashback to the origin of Gollum at the beginning, when I, personally, wanted to get on with Frodo or Aragorn); in other places it’s TOO faithful to the books, to the detriment of telling a coherent story.
Also, for some reason, Miranda Otto was clothed for the entire movie. What the hell is up witht that?
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go destroy some evidence.
