If you’re going to leave out Bullseye, then just totally forget Deadpool. Sure he’s an idiot, but lets face it even with out his outragous healing factor he’s not a guy you’d want to piss off.
Though I have to admit, I have no idea how much his quasi-mutant powers figgure into his speed and reflexes. But his inability to shut the hell up even with a broken jaw would have to give him a few points, even if its just becasue he is a constant distraction.
Usgai Yojimbo is a highly-skilled Samurai, even though he is a … Ronin.
Seriously, he is very, very good, having beaten teams of Ninja, fought many duels, & even defeated Supernatural opponents. While more skilled with his katana, he is also a very well-trained H-T-H combatant.
He did. Early issue of the Deathstroke series. Bats lost. Deathstroke had a substantial advantage with superhuman reflexes and strength.
Over in the Vertigo imprint, its hard to say who would win in a brawl between each of the Minutemen from 100 Bullets, The Corinthian from Sandman, and Agent 355 from Y: The Last Man, or whether the ever resourceful Mazikeen from Lucifer would trump everyone.
Captain America is not even close. He’s good, but he’s not obscenely good.
Wolverine is not even close. See Captain America.
Blade is also good, but I didn’t think he’s actually part of the Marvel Superheroes universe? He showed up for odd cross-overs, but not a normal series, right?
Thought I’d add that Duke Togo aka Golgo 13 is one bad mofo when it comes to hand to hand. He certainly prefers the use of a gun, but he has defeated (i.e. killed) a good many opponents barehanded.
In Frank Miller’s DAREDEVIL run, starting with issues #174 - 177 Matt goes several issues without his radar-sense after a close bomb explosion lands him in the hospital and robs him of his radar sense. He relied on his memory, ability to concentrate and augmented hearing to leap across rooftops, fight multiple enemies, throw kicks and punches, etc. He almost slips a bunch of times and got sucker punched by Grotto and Turk and almost killed, but he still manages to roust some guys at Josey’s Car and aid Elektra fighting members of the Hand, including slicing in half the swords of two armed Samurai (causing them to flee) before Stick cures him. He was less effective but still very, very formidable.
This is degenerating into "Who are the most skilled combatants?
Back to the titular question:
DC: Val Armorr (future and overall); Richard Dragon, Lady Shiva, Batgirl, Black Canary(?) or Connor Hawke(?) (current) Should Batman be in that list?
Marvel: ?? Captain America? Elektra? Bullseye? Gamora? No clue.
Marvel Ultimates: Hawkeye? Black Widow?
Image: ??
Vertigo: ??
Others: ??
IMHO, no. But that’s as much of a personal preference for how to write Batman as it is an interpretation of his current portrayals.
Batman’s formidable, sure, but there are others that are more than a match for him. Batman would win in those cases because he’s smarter, not a better fighter. He’d set up a situation where the odds were tilted in his favor, or he’d pull out a gadget from the utility built. Batman’s great because he’s got a little bit of everything. Blue Beetle could be a better gadgeteer, Shiva a better fighter, and Mister Miracle a better escape artist. The only single thing that Batman should be the undisputed best at, IMHO, is detective work.
D_Odds : Yes, Batman should be on that list. Actually, Wonder Woman and Big Barda should be considered skilled even without their powers. I think Connor’s a better combatant than the Canary (thought that may change soon) and I’d put Batman on par with Canary, or possibly just above. She’s faster, he’s tougher, and he’s smarter. And I think he has a greater breadth of study.
Maybe they changed it, but I recall Captain Amreica being a pretty darn good, but not nearly in Iron Fist’s class. He did have a lot fo skill and experience, but he was still not close to being an absolute master. Without his superpowers (granted, very balanced, minor, but useful superpowers) he wouldn’t rate.
He’s at the top of his game, not at the top of anyone else’s.
The Avengers are not known as being masters of hand-to-hand combat. And Cap doesn’t seem to use his supposed mastery of combat except when bashing people in the head with a certain invulnerable blunt object.
While I can dig the love for Usagi, I don’t think he’d win out in a fight against the likes of Bullseye, Deathstroke, or a lot of the near-meta humans in this list.
Invulnerable or not, being able to bash people with a shield that effectively is a pretty impressive combat skill. He’s not as flashy as some of the Asian-style martial artists, but it works. I wouldn’t put him at quite the same level as Iron Fist or Shang Chi, but he’s close. Even without powers, he’s at least a match for Batman.