If we were to take away all superpowers/mutations/magic/and so on, who’s the most skilled hand-to-hand combat fighter?
Conditions:
We can’t really cross-company compare, so a seperate “best” for each company is probably best (so one for Marvel, one for DC, etc).
If it’s a character who through outside means was given power, they aren’t included. No Hulk, Thing, or Captain Marvel - though Bruce Banner or Billy Batson would be ok, for example. Aliens are fine, so yes to Superman or J’onn J’onzz (though J’onn would be in his natural form).
Characters are reduced in power to only the abilites they would have as a normal biological entity - if they need powers to survive, they’re out. Muscle mass is kept at what they “look like” levels - so Superman is reduced to very muscular near-human.
Well, based on my memories of the comics I read as a kid:
In the DC universe, Karate Kid was so skilled that it amounted to a virtual super power. Running a pretty distant second would probably have been Richard Dragon, then Batman, with Manhunter (Paul Kirk), Wildcat, and a few others just barely behind him. Please remember that I quit reading regularly right around the time of Crisis on Infinite Earths.
In the Marvel Universe, wouldn’t it pretty much have to be Iron Fist, Shang Chi, or one of the other martial arts-oriented heroes? Of the costumed hero types, I’ve been given to understand that Captain America is darned good. Right around Batman good, in fact.
That is basically my DC List.
Marvel is a toss up between
Captain America
Task Master ( who has something like a physical photographic memory/photographic muscle thing going on)
Black Panther
Iron Fist
Blade
Wolverine might make this list due to his Ninja Training
DC:
Karate Kid
Lady Shiva / Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) (Tie)
Richard Dragon
Black Canary
Green Arrow (Connor Hawke)
Batman
Nightwing
Bronze Tiger
Wildcat
Robin
There’s probably a more obscure villain or two that could be crammed in there.
A great list, but I’d put Deathstroke on there too – after all, he whupped the entire JLA (Green Lantern Kyle, Flash Wally, Green Arrow Ollie, Black Canary, Atom, Hawkman, and even ZATANNA) single-handedly. I’d love to see Slade take on Batman mano a mano, or most of the others on that list.
I’d also add the Question toward the bottom of that list – martial arts is one of his many specialties, and he was trained by Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva.
I don’t disagree, but I disqualified Slade because he’s got powers that are impossible to separate from his fighter prowess. He, like Batman, also relies on establishing a tactical superiority before the first blow is even struck. In other words, he’s sneaky and he cheats. I can’t say how he’d do if his strength and reflexes were reduced to “human” levels and he was forced into a straightforward fight. Presumably pretty well, but in Shiva’s league? I tried to restrict myself to how they’d perform in a somewhat controlled environment, using pure fighting skill, not ambushes and traps.
Plus that fight in Identity Crisis was poorly written.
Question, Huntress, Mr. Terriffic and a bunch of others are just below this list.
Connor Hawke is. Ollie Queen (the best-known GA) isn’t. When Connor was lead GA, Chuck Dixon tried to establish him as the best of the best. Then Dragon came out of retirement, Batgirl appeared, and Connor dropped out of the spotlight. He’s still up there, though.
But has Connor Hawke ever taken on Batman and won? I mean, Batman is roughly on equal with Shiva, and Shiva is on equal with Dragon (hell, she killed him at one point) and…
Why no love for Bullseye? In his latest incarnation he’s pretty much unstoppable as a hand to hand combatant if a weapon of any type is at hand (even a loose tooth).
