Who is the most skilled combatant? (Comics)

Bane?

He has many skills, as you can see.

I agree. Also what about Thor ? A warrior who’s been fighting (and presumably getting better at it) for centuries would be pretty formidable, even without super-human strength and powers.

Dudes–I just recalled a character with true comics potential, who is easily in the Batman/Captain America range, & perhaps even better. No powers. Never had them.

THIS

GUY

IS

HELL

ON

WHEELS

DUDES!

Except didn’t the OP specify no equipment? I mean, I wouldn’t exactly want to get into a fight with him even unarmed, but without a big honkin’ Star Metal sword, I don’t think that Conan would be in the top tier.

Devil Dinosaur.

Punisher isn’t above such hth fighters as Cap or DD, but he’s vicious, he fights smart, and he takes insane amounts of damage.

His first fight with Captain America, he blocked Cap’s shield (freakin’ hard, Cap is a surgeon with that thing) something which astonished Cap. He’s fast enough to stand up to Daredevil, Spider-man, Doc Samson, Paladin, and USAgent even with their enhanced abilities. Frank’s strong enough to heft fully-grown men over his head like they’re nothing, as when he throws Ma Gnucci’s son off a skyscraper.

He’s fought Bullseye to a standstill on several occasions, and Bullseye fights dirtier than just about anyone. He gut-shot Deadpool when Deadpool was holding a gun to his head, and later takes on Deadpool one-on-one and wins (puts Deadpool’s head through a tv and walks off like it ain’t nothin’). He completely humiliated Venom. He broke Silver Sable’s ribs and fought her to a draw. He fought Moon Knight (who has superhuman abilities) and they were pretty evenly matched before Spider-man broke up the fight. Frank blocked a blast from the Black Widow’s wrist-stingers, then engages in hand-to-hand combat with her until, alas, they’re interrupted. He beat the snot out of Mikel Fury, who had previously defeated Wolverine and his father Nick Fury. He’s fought Wolverine numerous times, has him down for the count and nearly lights him on fire on one occasion.

Although he’s usually bested by Daredevil, Frank always puts up a damn good fight, and his track record against superhumans is spectacular considering he’s a baseline human who’s just tough and mean as hell. He’ll do anything to kill you, which right there makes him scarier than all-life-is-sacred heroes like Daredevil and Captain America. Don’t count Frank out just because he looks like a thug with a gun.

You have apparently only seen the bowdlerised kiddy cartoon verison of Conan. The Marvel comics Conan and the REH Conan wouldn’t even use a magic sword, much less require one. Conan has a deeeeep mistrust of magic of any sort.

Just sticking to the comics Conan, he would indisputably be equal to any unpowered character. He can use weapons, but he is also essentailly unbeatable in a one on one bareknuckle fight. Any fight where he is outnumbered less than 10 to one he invariably wins, no matter who the opponents. Like Batman he has also trained in just about every hand to hand style imaginable from the Eastern martial arts through pankration to good old fashioned brawling.
The reason I didn’t include him is he doesn’t really exist in a superhero universe. There have been crossovers via “What if?”, in one of which he fought Captain America to a standstill when he was unarmed and Cap had his shield. That alone proves he is a contender for top place. But he isn’t really part of the current Marvel “superverse” so he’s probably not really a contender.

Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) has beaten her mother Lady Shiva in combat at least twice.

From Marvel, Mantis is probably the most formidable female martial artist, even without her Celestial Madonna powers. She has achieved physical perfection. She can exploit any weak spot in the human body (she’s even stunned Thor with one of her blows). She fought Doctor Strange (who has some impressive martial arts skills he learned in Tibet) back during the Avengers/Defenders War, and he decided fighting her hand-to-hand was too risky and resorted to his magic.

Conan is on record as having snapped the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before he was 14 years of age. Damn scary, when you reflect on it.

He has also prevailed against proffessional stranglers, giant apes, & several supernaturals in H-T-H.

Yeah. He bad! :cool:

All of that is, IMHO, the “Batman Syndrome”. “I’m writing the book, so the guy I’m writing has to be the best.” He cannot be faster than Spider-man. Can’t. Spider-man has powers. Castle doesn’t. I’ve got no issue with him going toe-to-toe with Black Widow or Bullseye, because they’re human. Samson, Captain America, and USAgent are not. Beating Wolverine…that’s just too weird for words, given his beloved ranking amoung the fans. Therefore he shouldn’t even be able to stand up to them. Sorry, I’ll be the first to admit I dislike Punisher and that feeling is probably coloring my judgement on this issue. Also, killing a lot of heroes doesn’t mean you’re a better fighter, obviously.

Conan would win against a lot of people because he is, simply, insane. He is. I like the stories and the movies, and Conan is just a total nutjob in a fight. He’d win vs., say, Cap because he will not stop. Ever. He’ll keep fighting until death. If you knock him out, eventually he WILL get back up and come after you. He’s not the smartest, or the strongest, he’s just insane.

He’s not faster than Spider-man. Or Daredevil, for that matter. But Frank is tough enough and smart enough to have put up good fights against both of them, although they usually put him in his place. In a fight against superhumans Frank is of course at a disadvantage. In his fight against Sabretooth, it was almost all over for Frank before Spidey came and pulled Sabes off of him. And there’s been a couple of times Bullseye could have plugged him, but didn’t for whatever reason known only to Bullseye’s sick, twisted mind. In the Doc Samson fight, Frank was in restraints when he smacked Samson around, Samson got in a couple of good punches and Frank went down, mind you Samson was not trying to hurt Frank at the time or he could just have cracked Frank’'s skull like a nut.

Frank is better known as a gun and knife-fighter just because he’s usually too smart to get caught without weapons. But he’s a ferocious hand-to-hand opponent, and shouldn’t be underestimated. In The Cell, Frank is handcuffed and still beats the hell out of four armed guards and the most dangerous inmate in Rykers (Squeaky Pete, so called because “he don’t like usin’ lube when he’s buttfuckin’.”) In the pre-Ennis days, back during War Journal, Frank got shot four times, went down, got back up, soundly thrashed some thugs, got thrown off a building, got back up, and finished introducing the thugs to the pavement. In that same storyline, Frank fought an expert fencer while he was unarmed, gets sliced up, and then pitches the guy off a building.

And I don’t understand your comment about “killing alot of heroes” – what superheroes has Punisher killed? He goes after the Mafia mostly, only deals with superheroes when they come after him like Daredevil does every weekend. When Wolverine, Spider-man, and Daredevil teamed up to take him in, Frank specifically used non-lethal traps against them (except Logan, who he knows can take lethal and then some).

In the one-shot alternate universe story Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe Franks family was caught in the crossfire between superheros and villians, so he set about killing all the supers, good or evil.

All right, that’s much more reasonable. I read your post as saying he’d gone up against those various heroes bare-knuckled. I’ve got no issue with his fighting ability, I just thought you were exaggerating his skills. I’m all clear now. :slight_smile:

And the “killing people” bit was in response to Peter Morris’s referring to the Punisher vs. The Marvel Universe book as a benchmark for Frank’s hand-to-hand skills.

I wasn’t saying Frank was the best fighter – Cap and DD, just to name two, are better. But Frank is definitely the street-leveler I would least like to go up against in a fight. If it was me with a bazooka and a forty-five versus an armless-and-legless Punisher, I’m sure Frank would still find a way to kill me, and it would be the worst death imaginable.

Obviously, Punisher vs. the Marvel Universe is an alternate timeline. Alt. timelines are tricky because the characters may have different experiences and skills from universe to universe. Although it’s worth noting that it’s another good example of Frank using his brain – frying Wolverine, pops Bruce Banner instead of trying to take on the Hulk, nukes the X-Men, etc. Frank has no concept of a fair fight, his only goal is to put those on his shitlist six feet under as quickly and efficiently as possible.

In one of the 70s Daredevil comics where he’s fighting Bullet, DD thinks to himself, “I sense something – Bullet’s arm, tensing up for a punch!” And then he neatly dodges the punch.

Daredevil’s also amazingly stealthy. In the recent Secret Wars mini, DD senses Spider-man’s in his (DD’s) apartment from two blocks away. He then swings down and surprises Spidey, who was sneaking milk from his fridge (right out of the carton! Bad Peter!), and gets a facefull of spit milk for his trouble.

I’d argue that’s not really typical. Spider-Man’s a dodger. The most successful villians who are able to actually land a punch are 1) fast as Spider-Man – (Venom, Carnage and the Lizard) 2) are able to come at him from multiple vectors at once or in short succession (bomb-throwing Green Goblin, multi-armed Doc Ops, lightning throwing Electro) or 3) brawl in close quarters (Kraven, the Vulture, Kingpin, the Enforcers). But give Spider-Man room to manuever, repelling from ceilings and walls, and he can dodge kicks, punches bullets and lasers, you name it. Name one instance where Spider-Man senses a punch via spider-senses and gets tagged anyway, and I can cite you three different instances where he successfully moves out the way.

Ye-ee-eah, you had to dig through a bunch of 70s DAREDEVIL comics to find that one example. :wink: I already admitted it was possible, just not, since at least the early 80s, characteristic.

Just for the record, a Star Metal sword is not magical (or at least, not necessarily so). It’s just the pinnacle of technology, for that time and place, and unlikely to be duplicated. Historically, the first iron to be exploited was in fact meteoric in origin (since terrestrial iron tends to be deeper down than copper or tin), and it’s easy to see how people could think such a sword would be magical, but really, it would have just been better than bronze. But even aside from the specific details of the big honkin’ sword, everything I’ve seen of Conan has him fighting armed. I’d have no problem putting him at or near the top of the list in swordfighting, but hand-to-hand is not his specialty, and I’d expect him to lose to those who do specialize in hand-to-hand.

I agree, besides, Conan’s usually drunk and in those 10-on-1 barfights someone knocks him cold with a wooden chair on top of the head. This leads to Conan waking up in a dungeon in chains, which allows him an opportunity to escape, which advances the story.

Chronos, good call on the ‘star-metal’ point, am I a geek because the first thing I thought of was a meteorite too?