Specifically these ones:
http://www.amazon.com/2012-Dragon-Silver-Air-Tite-capsule/dp/B006MYH4TS
I’m specifically interested in these exact bars (I know where the Perth rounds come from and the other ‘Year of the Dragon’ silver bars out there), but bars of the type in the link above don’t seem to come with any explanation of where they were minted and I wonder if that means we can’t really trust the grade of silver (.999) they are advertised as.
Any ideas as to the provenance?
I don’t know who makes them, but I’ll say with 99% certainty they’re .999 fine silver. I read a bit about the company selling them, and they would sell a product that wasn’t as described. I’m in the business and it looks legit to me.
Thanks Samclem, that’s mostly what I wanted to know.
Someone on the internet tells you your silver bars are “real” and that’s sufficient for you?
OK.
These bars are very problematical. I myself do not know anyone to whom Chinese silver is desirable or acceptable, but that’s just a matter of opinion, I suppose. Chinese silver shows up in any number of obviously fake and not-so-obviously fake forms…some labeled “replica”, some not.
Check the APMEX website, one among many places where they are sold. Note that APMEX does not post a “buyback” price. They offer buyback on J-M bars, Englehard bars, their own-minted APMEX bars, AMark bars, Sunshine bars, Heraus bars, RCM bars, Eagles, Maples, Philharmonics, bulk silver dollars or any size junk silver bags…but they don’t seeem to offer a buyback price for these Dragon bars.
Why do you think that is?
**I consider everything that comes out of China as fake. Everything. **Now, these bars have no manufacturer name stamped in them. Nobody seems to know who minted them.
But…why is this something the bullion buyer should expose themselves to? Isn’t the idea of buying and owning bullion that it is what is? So if you buy something that is suspect, and CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT IT IS SUSPECT doesn’t that blow the whole concept out of the water?
These are honest questions. I just bought some Pan American bars from a dealer who shall remained unnamed pending their fix/non-fix of the situation, because what arrived were these 2012 Year of the Dragon bars. To me, they are absolutely unacceptable, for reasons I just explained. My intention is to pursue administrative, followed by legal action if necessary against the dealer if they do not correct this situation. As far as I am concerned, these bars are counterfeit and my decision to buy silver does not carry with it the risk that what I buy is potentially counterfeit.
samclem is a professional coin dealer and has many years of experience in the business.
While it’s all well and good to have some caveats about advice on the internet, his opinion carries some weight.
Someone might likewise ask why your personal opinion should be considered.
Well, there was that whole counterfeit Silver Panda coin scandal a few years back. You couldn’t sell one on ebay for any amount for a while. Healthy suspicion for China (or any other, for that matter) silver/gold is a good idea, and I would only buy it from a reputable bullion dealer. Ebay has the advantage of being able to see any complaints about the seller, and how much positive feedback he has. I have no experience with buying bullion from an Amazon dealer, but this one only has three reviews, which could easily be shills. For what it’s worth, Panda USA has been in business for quite a while and are pretty reputable.
I understand your point of view. But they’re still .999 silver, even if APMEX doesn’t offer a buyback. I personally guarantee you a buyback of the spot price of silver. I have no doubt APMEX would do the same.
APMEX, as a major player in the bullion market, wouldn’t sell something that was fake, not silver. That’s what you’re saying.
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I consider everything that comes out of China as fake. Everything.
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I have no problem with your statement. Unfortunately, these bars don’t come out of China. Prove me wrong
Why are you buying silver bars for anything other than than their silver value?
Wouldn’t a maker of counterfeits be more likely make a forgery of a popular coin/bar instead of making something somewhat novel?
Buying from a trusted source should probably be more important than the exact thing you are buying.
I know your question wasn’t directed at me, but in my case, I bought it as a 5th (silver) wedding anniversary present for my wife. I paid more that the spot price, but it wasn’t considered an investment, just something nice for her, and the design has a special significance for us.
I got one of the ones of the type in the OP link, but the 10 ounce one. I think it’s pure silver. It is certainly heavy, exactly 311 grams (I guess I’d also need to measure volume, but not sure how to do that accurately in the home). It also ‘rings’ when you balance it at a point and flick it with your fingernail.
Oh, and if you put an ice cube on it (the bar of silver) it melts away like it was on a hot skillet (silver being the best conductor of heat among all metals). It’s a cool experiment - you should try it!