What do you have against other living organisms?
I agree with your first post about potential conflicts of interest. The military is just beginning to sort out the mess they’ve created. One might think an Ivy League school might read the papers and realize it has the exact same issue.
We have way different definitions of fun, even when used sarcastically.
I KNEW IT! I KNEW IT! ZPG Zealot raped a man! Specifically, she “raped” a minister.
See here.
Dang. What’s the new colloquial term for even crazier than batshit insane? I think I’ll go with ZPG crazy.
But that is not reality.
Assault is assault, but a handshake is not an assault. Unwanted touching is battery. Assault is the threat of immediate physical harm.
Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. —Greg King
I think Emily Post, Judith Martin, etc would agree with this:
But I don’t think they would say this was the correct response to an etiquette breach:
Were you both fired after this?
That’s hot.
Hopefully, only ZPGZ was. Her victim did nothing wrong other than extend his hand. You know, like an actual gentleman would have done.
I thought it read like he grabbed her hand when she didn’t accept his, which would be rather rude.
If not then only she should have been fired, you’re right.
I’m a lot more conflicted. First, doesn’t the accuser in a defamation case have to prove the accusation is false? I may well be wrong on this; please correct me if I am. Is a genuine belief in the accusation a defense against claims of defamation?
Second, I think it’s absolutely appropriate in a one-on-one basis for Alice to tell her friend Beatrice that JoeBob raped her, and it’s appropriate for Beatrice to let Charlotte know, as well; on the contrary, if Beatrice watched Charlotte leave a party with JoeBob after Alice told her her story, and didn’t warn Charlotte, I’d think Beatrice was a horrible person.
If the folks posting the signs about the suspected rapists have solid information that they believe they can trust, I’m not entirely clear why it’s inappropriate for them to tell this story to more women. What principle distinguishes between warning a friend about a rapist, and warning a stranger about a rapist? And is this principle ethical, legal, or both?
If the accusation is false, of course it’s a terrible thing to do–but that’s a problem with false accusations, not a problem with all accusations.
All that said, I’m still not comfortable with the flyers, but I’m having trouble articulating a clear reason why (I’ve deleted a few attempts because they didn’t hold up).
They wouldn’t. I looked it up last time this idiotic subject came up, and going back to early 20th century it’s clear in etiquette guides that within a business setting, handshakes offered to men should be offered on exactly the same terms as handshakes offered to women.
In American law, truth is a defense to z claim of defamation, which means that the the defendant has to prove that the allegedly defamatory statement is true. The burden is different if the plaintiff is a public figure.
If it could harm JoeBob’s reputation, it’s still defamation. In this case private defamation (slander), rather than public defamation (libel). It could still ruin JieBob’s life, and that creates an actionable harm.
That’s okay. After all, the incident she “related” simply did not happen. She made it up. I feel kind of silly myself for not recognizing that immediately.
PFFFT! HA! LOL! That’s the most fucked up thing I’ve heard in a long time.
So if a man is falsely accused of rape, it is his own fault for being alone with a woman? It’s their own fault for not bringing a chaperone on their dates? What kind of logic is that?
Sorry… this thread is just so mind-blowing I had to come back to it.
ZPG Zealot chose her name wisely, because she is obviously a zealot in the worst possible meaning of the term. I don’t know if you are a refugee from Afghanistan, or the Victorian era, or some militant Mormon enclave, or what, but no sane human being who expects to interact with normal society on a daily basis views the world through the exagerratedly hostile lens that you do. I don’t know even a single woman (except you) who would equate a handshake with rape, assault, or marital infidelity. It is a normal and commonplace custom, and reacting with violence is bizarre and unreasonable by anyone’s standards. Your standards for “respect” are so bafflingly beyond those of sane human beings that I am frankly astonished that you even manage to function in daily life, and I would have no interest in speaking to or working with someone who presumed my normal customs and courtesies were hostile assaults on her gender. Good luck to you, and God have mercy on any man unfortunate enough to offer you a handshake.
Can someone explain to me why these women didn’t go to the police?
The women who posted the flyers in question are playing fast and loose with the truth, not to mention their choice of words.
Those same women have no proof that an actual rape has occurred.
The victims of their smear campaign would have legal recourse if those loons filed a false police report.
No laws were broken.
That should do for now.
And lest it gets lost in the thread, ZPG Zealot’s BS about slapping someone and HR calling police, etc., is just that–BS. It did not happen. There’s no way that story is true. Also, let’s not forget her “raping” that minister by doing to him what she says is rape from males. I’m going to do my best to post this paragraph on every thread page in which she trots that out or any of her other insanity on this subject.
Emily Post advises to let the woman initiate the shake in Islamic countries. Judith Martin never brings that up from what I’ve seen. Other etiquette writers don’t mention anything about mixed gender handshakes. One amusing one that I came across was for advice in Russia…they say it is impolite for a man to shake hands with a woman, because a kiss to the hand is what would be expected.
Why do you keep saying that? It’s perfectly plausible knowing her attitude. A co worker touches her hand and she freaks out. Human resources then calls the police because there’s a crazy lady in the office slapping people. The police show up and she has to explain why she slapped the guy. What’s so hard to believe?
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this wasn’t the first time somebody called the cops on ZPG Zealot
Oh, probably because she would’ve related her arrest, her firing, and then railed about the unfairness of all that. And, of course, nobody’s going to stand there in an office while some lunatic woman is slapping them repeatedly. One slap, it’s over, the victim goes to HR, ZPG Zealot gets called in and fired. That’s the likely outcome if the story were even remotely true.
Like a couple of other things she’s posted, that story really doesn’t pass the smell test.
I’m with you, though, in thinking that the cops have been called on her at least once, but not the way she says it happened.