I posted this in that other thread - where it was off topic.
But what I’ve been wondering lately is who in power - either in the R party, businesspersons, wealthy persons - supports Trump’s policies and why? It astounds me that EVERY R Congress critter is willing to abdicate their authority. Is that solely for a continued seat in Congress? In business, who is profiting from Trump’s immigration efforts? Who benefits from what seems to me an intentional effort to lessen US influence worldwide? Who benefits from kowtowing to Putin?
I recall reading a persuasive essay during W’s time that said pretty much every move he made made sense if you interpreted it as intended to make wealthy people wealthier. I guess the stock market and the wealth of the very top percent of 1% would support that. But why do so many other influential people support the greed of this relatively small # of people?
Do Trump’s policies reflect the desires of a significant portion of average Americans across social/economic sectors? Or are “impressionable” masses being manipulated by more crafty individuals/groups/entities? Conservative media/commentators, the wealthiest, the most intolerant?
I suspect the latter. But what individuals/groups/entities perceive a definite benefit to be derived from Trump’s policies over time? Who will do better in a warmer climate with a country that has less global interest and - I suspect - a weaker economy? Or are the manipulators overly focussed on short term benefits, which they feel will help them withstand any longer term problems?
Yeah. Trump seems motivated solely by personal greed, self-aggrandizement, and revenge. But I’d appreciate at least a little more serious discussion before this thread devolves into Trump bashing and hyperbole.
There are a large number of people eager to participate in his administration. A number of politicians in Congress and some states, and at least 5 justices, who are eager to go along. Some wealthy people and businesspeople are willing to either go along or to give in to his bullying - for whatever reasons (I suspect short term balance sheet-related). Many of these people are relatively well-educated, relatively (if not extremely) wealthy, and therefore, somewhat powerful.
I suspect the motivations of these individuals might be different from the MAGA rank and file, or even ICE thugs who either just want a paycheck, or revel in a paycheck that allows them to bully others.
I hope there is room for some discussion slightly more than
The base of the GOP support ethnic nationalism. They want America to be a white christian patriarchy. They see Trump as supporting that agenda and will look the other way on everything else he does wrong as long as Trump supports white nationalism, patriarchy and christian dominionism
Republican congresspeople are terrified of losing a primary, so they won’t oppose Trump because its not in their career interests to do so.
The rich like Trump because he supports supply side tax cuts, is anti-union, anti-regulation, etc.
I personally don’t believe Trump is some kind of genius mastermind. An anonymous Trump aide said:
Some people seem to think Trump’s playing chess, when most of the time the staff are just trying to stop him from eating the pieces.
So I don’t buy Trump is the one behind everything. Trump is just the 7 deadly sins personified, he isn’t some strategic mastermind.
What I don’t understand is why so many republicans are fine with Trump destroying America’s reputation. Trump is making it much easier for China to grow as a superpower by destroying America’s reputation and alliances, I don’t know who in the US benefits from that. Is it just that they’re too afraid of losing a primary to stand up to him? I don’t know.
There is some truth to this though. Its my understanding that Bannon played a big role in gamergate. Also the right is using sexual frustration among young men to funnel them into the manosphere and the alt right pipeline. The epstein files imply Epstein may have played a role in pushing conspiracy theories blaming democrats for a global pedophile ring. Epstein and Maxwell seem to have had ties to 4chan and reddit to push their agenda.
It does seem like there is a secretive right wing cabal including people like Bannon who try to funnel people into right wing groups with the manosphere, conspiracy theories, etc.
I think it’s different for different groups/policies , but I think what all the groups have in common is that they are willing to tolerate a lot of things they don’t like in order to get the things they do like. I suspect that some of the Supreme Court justices don’t care so much about Trump’s policies as they do about the idea of a unitary executive and they would have ruled the way they did whenever they had the chance with a Republican president, regardless of what the actual policies were. Nobody in business is profiting from the immigration policies- if anything, many of them are against those policies.Politicians will do whatever they need to do to retain their seat. Right now, that’s supporting Trump, but it looks like that might be changing. Businesses are looking toward out for their short term interests, not long term. Sure, the Paramount-Skydance merger was approved after Paramount settled that bogus lawsuit - but I wonder how many people are no longer watching the national news or 60 minutes.
And part of it is that some of those people are not as powerful as they seem - Bezos, Zuckerberg, etc seem powerful and they were until there was no such thing as fair and impartial in the executive branch. They see Brendan Carr threatening broadcasters and the DOJ going after Trumps enemies and they don’t want to end up being on the retribution list.
It astounds me that EVERY R Congress critter is willing to abdicate their authority. Is that solely for a continued seat in Congress?
The short answer is yes. It takes a lot of time, money, and effort to get elected to Congress, and once there, you have the power to make changes that affect millions of people. Trump has made it clear that you either go along with whatever he wants or risk being “primaried,” which would mean losing your position in government. Trump can find someone in your party to run against you, provide them with almost unlimited funding, and beat you at the polls. Because of that, you will lie down and do whatever he asks you to do, no questions asked. These are not idle threats. It’s as simple as that.
I agree that he is not a mastermind. Instead, ISTM he is such an amoral, self-interested, unprincipled being that others have seen that they can pursue their agendas - so long as they can convince him that he looks tough/owns the libs/personally profits in the process. So all the various amoral self-interested groups can unify behind him as a figurehead, under whom they can pursue their diverse aims.
I’ve said it before, but it really boggles my mind that, among the 270-ish R Congresscritters, so few are willing to meaningfully stand against him. The best we have is old farts weaseling out. And fucking MTG.
28 R senators 65 or older; 20 70 or older. 19 R Congresscritters with wealth over $50 million - 8 over $200 million. These aren’t exactly young folk starting a family/career, dependent on the next paycheck. Yet they are willing to kowtow to a really horrendous excuse for a human being, who - I believe - is pursuing policies which will truly hurt the US. Really - $10 billion for ICE? Just to avoid being primaried in their freaking dotage?
People question how some blue collar schmuck can stand being an ICE thug. To me, that is a lot more understandable than an old, wealthy Congresscritter completely abandoning any principles.
Will the Supremes be as thrilled with a unitary exec under a Dem (should that ever come to pass?) Will a Dem president be willing to exercise their full power as a unitary exec? Is such a wildly swinging executive branch “good” for the country?
Yeah, but if Bezos, Zuckerberg declined to publicly support him and contribute to his various slush funds. And if news organizations, colleges, and powerful law firms stood up to his blackmail efforts.
Well, sure , but that’s true of all of them. If all the rich people didn’t donate and refused to support him , if all the colleges and law firms didn’t give in , if the all or even most of the Republicans had a spine we wouldn’t be in this situation. But they have no courage, they don’t trust the others and they don’t want to be the only one who pays the price for going against him. They’re so afraid of hanging separately that they won’t hang together - even though that result in the best outcome for everyone.
To me, that is a lot more understandable than an old, wealthy Congresscritter completely abandoning any principles.
Forget abandoning principles - even if they don’t have any of those, I don’t understand how they are so willing to give up their power.
Many businesses benefit from an easily exploited underclass. They like having a group of people who are afraid to complain about unsafe working conditions or unfair labor practices.
If two lower classes hate each other, they are less of a threat to the upper class.
Sure, there is some risk in hiring undocumented workers. Successful business leaders tend to be gamblers. They weigh risk and reward and play the odds.
Yeah, I guess the rich fuckers in Congress can likely be counted on wanting to get even richer.
So what is the motivation behind the Project 2025 assholes? Because in Trump they sure found a vehicle to advance their agenda. The Heritage Foundation? Ideologically pro Christianity and against abortion, immigration, gender issues…?
There are lots of people, countries and entities that profit from Trump’s policies. Their specific motivations may be different, but they coalesce into a common objective: To keep him in power, and thus, themselves, too.
China, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and other nations benefit a great deal from a weakened United States, small on the global stage and without strong alliances. Those adversaries take care of the foreign influences felt for most of the last 15 years here through bots and troll farms. I rarely see these influences credited, but they are there and they are significant. I’ve no idea why we consistently underestimate them.
Crooked politicians, mostly Republicans, understand that they’d better hang together or they’ll hang separately. So long as they keep Trump in power, they are safe from accountability. Plus grift! They learned from another successful autocrat, Orban, holding their CPAC meetings in Hungary. Trump himself draws heavily on Putin’s/Hitler’s roadmaps to power. It’s the same playbook over and over.
The wealthy, both in this country and abroad, benefit enormously from Trump’s policies. Big Oil, Big Tech, Big Pharma and any jerk whose wealth depends upon the exploitation of our natural resources: All are delighted with Trump’s rollbacks of any legislative progress previously made in those areas.
Some beneficiaries are True Believers™, who think the nation will be better off under autocratic rule with a strong American-Christian-eccentric ethos, but I believe they are the least of the influencers. They are more pawns than players.
Prominent GOP consultant Mike Murphy claimed on Wednesday that he was told by a Republican senator that the majority of Republican senators “would vote to impeach” President Donald Trump if they could do so anonymously.
“These Senate Republicans, should the Democrats vote impeachment, which is far more likely than not, are going to be pinned down to a yes/no answer,” Murphy, who previously advised Republican politicians including Mitt Romney, John McCain and Jeb Bush, said in an interview with MSNBC.
“The politics of it will get worse and worse for Trump,” the Republican political consultant, who has long been critical of Trump, said.
“One Republican senator told me if it was a secret vote, 30 Republican senators would vote to impeach Trump,” he claimed, suggesting that the GOP lawmakers are concerned that voting against the president could harm them politically. The Senate is currently controlled by Republicans, with 53 GOP lawmakers serving in the legislative body.
Also stuff like wealth accumulation (beyond a certain point), I don’t understand. Even Nancy Pelosi, who is 85 and worth 250 million makes strategic investments that other investors try to copy since she uses inside information. When does it end? Do you really need to die of old age with 270 million in the bank instead of only 250 million? How much money do your kids and grandkids need to live a good life?
The psychology is fundamentally different for a great many of the wealthy. I’ve met ostensibly rich people (in this case passive trust fund babies who had a smaller “mansion” and never had to work again, but weren’t so rich they could buy their own Caribbean island) who thought like you do. But for many, many wealthy people it is less about raw need, than desire.
For some it’s just about keeping score - more is winning at life. For some it’s about a frankly irrational “security” - I must stuff the hole, even if said hole is already a mile deep and stuffed with diamonds. For some it is about concrete power and influence - being a billionaire buys me more respect and control than a hundred millionaire. For some it is honestly just a hobby. For some it is that + ambition combined with a smidgeon of altruism (see Buffet, Warren) - I’m making more to donate more to contribute to society and to feel better about myself.
I don’t regularly interact with very wealthy people (a few folks here have), but I think many would just be confused by your question. More is better. Sure $250 million is “enough”, but $270 million is more - why wouldn’t I want more?
I can see how money buys influence (political influence, media influence, philanthropic influence, etc), but if you’re in your 70s or 80s, what are you going to do with the influence? Nancy Pelosi (who I generally like) only has a few years of life left. She was speaker of the house. What influence is she going to need with an extra 20 million she will never spend?
I do remember seeing an interview with a CEO who once said after you get to a certain amount of money you can buy whatever you want. After that the money is just for keeping score.
