Honestly, this is where I find myself unable to move forward.
What kind of study do you think would be adequate, or likely to arise from such a bill as is proposed? Assuming for now that the study would be well and fully funded, what kinds of things would be in or out of it? I have a problem with the idea of “study racism and how it has and does affect people” as something so inherently boundless that I can’t think of it ever ending. How do you imagine a set of criteria that says Group A in Situation B is appropriate to include while Group B in Situation B isn’t? Through this whole thread I’ve seen you repeat the mantra of “Have a study!” But historians, sociologists, psychologists, economists, public policy experts and probably a bunch of others I am not thinking of right at this moment have been studying, analyzing, and writing about racism and its effects for over a hundred years. So what would be the characteristic that distinguishes this particular study from all the decades upon decades of work that have gone before it? And do you honestly think it’s a thing that can be in any way comprehensively achieved?
While I think your motivation is coming from a good place, I truly cannot envision what it is you think of when you call for a study of this issue that would yield any sort of satisfactory results. Nor have I seen any kind of proposal that mentions scope boundaries, methodology, time frames, or anything else that might convince me there’s a chance that this could be a workable thing. If I’ve missed it in a link somewhere, then please do point me back to it.
So in response to a well thought out post of a why a study would not be beneficial, you respond simply that you want a study?
What exactly and specifically would you like this study that you have discussed ad infinitum to concentrate upon? We already know that blacks were treated terrible. Do you want a collection of individual horribles; a sort of airing of grievances? What do you anticipate that you study may show that we do not already know? Is it your hope that there will be so many bad stories that you get some moderates on your side? There must be some point to such a seemingly pointless exercise.
I want all the details, and I want everyone to know all the details. I want anyone who ever implies things used to be better for black people to be shamed and shunned out of polite society, since everyone finally understands the true extent of the harm done by American policy and practice.
Here’s some prominent real world cites, while I’m working on digging up some Dope examples (Starving Artist and Clothahump asserted this for many, many years, before they were eventually banned for something unrelated):
Your 1st quote from Roy Moore wasn’t contemplating blacks I don’t think. That is to say that when he said, “families were closer back then” he meant white people because black people didn’t even occur to him.
The Phil Robertson bit I’ll give you. He did definitely say that black people in his area of backwoods Louisiana seemed happier then.
Starving Artist didn’t say anything at all about black people being happier in the bygone days.
Maybe you should do some research and study, I am unconvinced.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Starving Artist or Clothahump, for that matter, said something like that – especially the former. Granted both of them were morons, so I doubt any study would’ve convinced them.
People like them, or Roy Moore, they’ll see what they want to see.
When people say that the 40s or 50s were a “better time” I think it is the largest of stretches to say that it is some sort of dog whistle for liking the fact that blacks were kept in their place. There were a lot of things going on back then and to a white person, most of them had nothing to do with blacks.
I think that one can look at their childhood with a rosy recollection without taking into account every single thing that was going on in society at the time.
Which has nothing even remotely specific in it. It basically says “Here’s 12 million bucks. Pack a commission full of people who are reparations activists, tell us about how bad slavery was, and give us a bill.”
I should probably be among those who pay reparations. I don’t have much in the way of net worth or income so you might want to take it out in the form of community service or something.
My family is from the south. My great-great grandparents on multiple ancestral pathways owned slaves. So we direct benefitted from the coerced exploitation of the ancestors of today’s American blacks. I could argue that we don’t seem to have profited much from it over the long haul, especially once you take into account loss of life and property in the Civil War, but that’s like saying “I didn’t manage to live a life of luxury from the proceeds of that bank robbery so you shouldn’t hold it against me”. Or “Yeah, I shot my parents, but have pity on me, I’m an orphan now”.
** shrugs again ** I don’t think I should be in charge of assessments. Maybe that’s another case of white people abrogating responsibility, to say let someone else figure out what to do and I’ll just go along with it, but it doesn’t seem appropriate for the guilty defendant in a civil suit to decide how much they should pay, does it? I’ll cast my vote in favor of doing reparations (via voting for candidates who would support them, I guess) and wait to hear whatever is deemed fair and appropriate.
Do you think it will help heal? I’d love to settle up and put this behind us. What an awful thing, slavery.
This country has been divided as a result of slavery and will keep being divided because the proceeds of slavery are still being enjoyed by many but remain a curse on a minority and their descendants. If not somehow cleared up, it will be like a cancer that continues to eat away from within.
This goes back to the issue I raised before. Does anyone think that reparations would settle up/clear up racism and put it behind us? Or would racism still exist afterwards and still harm black people? Won’t the cancer still be eating away at America?
You’re conflating racism and a national apology and the attempt to make amends for 200 PLUS years dehumanizing black people. 200 PLUS years of using free black labor to grow this country, grow wealth for European Americans, wealth they then passed on to their descendants and wealth African Americans were prevented from gathering and passing on to their descendants - a reason for the huge and possibly insurmountable wealth gap. At the minimum, a written apology codified in law with a token will go a small way towards this end.
Racism will still exist as it does elsewhere but the actual damage and hurt that was caused by the 200 PLUS years of dehumanization of African Americans here will be assuaged.
Most so-called slave descendants are also slave-master descendants. This is because there was so much rape of slaves. African Americans really need to recognize that they are descendants of the raped and the rapists. If they want reparations for what was done to their ancestors, they should be some of the first to pay because the perpetrators were also their ancestors.
Most whites don’t have a rapist slave-master ancestor. Almost all African American descendants of slaves also have a rapist slave-master ancestor.
Who should really be apologizing for the evil committed? I say the descendants of the evil rapists. Whether white or black.
And you really think reparations are the way to go about it?
Do you think that other nations should do the same thing? Does the British government owe me and my family, for what they did to our ancestors, for centuries of brutal oppression and near genocide?
Does the upper class of Russia owe the descendents of peasants, for the generations spent in serfdom, which was basically slavery under a different name?
