Who wass the most powerful character ever to grace fiction? (spoilers possible)

Eh, thanks for the offer, but no.

I think Cassidy surviving the Saint of Killers’ shot was an accidental oversight on Garth Ennis’ part. With nine volumes and pretty much no plotholes therein, I think we can give the man a break. :wink:

Adam

This seems much more likely.

Likely, schmikely. My explanation is convoluted enough to be worthy of a Marvel No Prize.

“He couldn’t kill a vampire because vampires can’t be killed with bullets, but apparently omnipotent creator deities can be.” - This one, you mean? Hmmm. Nah. :wink:

what about Tom Bombadil?

no power could control him and he seemed to be invincible. he just didn’t give a rats ass about anything other than his wife and his damn silly songs. “Just ab-so-lutely dreadful,” -Simon.

#1. Cassidy can’t be killed with silver or wooden stakes. He even mentions that he’s had a stake through the heart before and it “hurt like hell.”

#2. I’m much more comfortable saying it’s a plot hole than any bullshit contrived weasely technicality. Remember that the Saint shoots Cassidy fairly early in book 1, and the “any shot is fatal” isn’t mentioned until book 4. It’s something that Ennis hadn’t thought of yet when Cassidy got shot. I’m more than willing to let him slide on that one.

And, if you look at the books, it explains that if God was on his throne, then he couldn’t be killed. But he wasn’t, he had moved on Earth. The Saint was sitting on his throne, and at that point, he shot him. Maybe not good enough for you, but an type of explanation is given.

I’m just enjoying all of your speculation on a set of books you haven’t read.

CandidGamera. More at, “Like vampires and ghosts, Cassidy’s already dead, so no, he can’t actually kill him again – at least, not with a single bullet. The Saint of Killers can destroy Cassidy using any other appropriate method for killing vampires. The only reason the Saint was ever able to kill the angels and God was because God was not on his Throne of Power at the time and not truly omnipotent or in a position to protect the host of Heaven. Askia’s interpretation is that had God been on the throne, the Saint’s shooting him wouldn’t have worked. Askia was bugged by this three years ago and this is the internally-consistent explanation he worked out for himself that fits the logic of the series. Askia has heard all this described as “cheesy and contrived” and “an oversight” before and rejects both these explantions in favor of the third, “bullshit weasly contrived technicality” it may be. It’s his opinion, it fits the facts, and he likes it a lot, so neener, neener, neener.”

(On preview) Exactly. Thank YOU, diku.

I reason from the facts available to me. What does a ghost have that God doesn’t, that renders it immune to the Saint’s bullets? It seems like grossly inconsistent metaphysics, but someone came along and presented a logically consistent theory with facts from the series backing it up, I’d accept that.

It is entirely possible to reason, logically and often correctly, from limited data. That’s how they solve crimes, you know.

I think you have go back to the creation of the Saint and the “limitations” of his weapons. Part of the enchantment was something like, he will never miss and every shot/wound will be fatal. Well a ghost is already dead, how can you wound a ghost?

Secondly, part of “god’s” power was tied to his throne…by leaving the throne, he rendered himself vulnerable. Part of his pleading to the Saint, was if you let reach my throne, I’ll give you back your life, your wife, your family…meaning to me, that while he was god, and could do all kinds of things…it wasn’t until he sat on his throne, that he became GOD, capable of ALL THINGS. Why not just wave away the Saint? Because he didn’t have enough power, without the throne, he was just a jumped up Angel, and that wasn’t enough.

It’s sort of like that old Star Trek episode, when they meet Apollo, whose powers were tied to his throne. Once the Enterprise destroyed the throne, Apollo lost most of his powers. Sure he could still kill Kirk and the others, but he no longer had the power to reach out and grab the Enterprise in space.

So in the Preacher Universe, an Angel is a physical entity even in (whatever plane the Throne is in) with vital organs capable of being wounded?

Yes, but only by “heavenly or unholy” weapons. I think many comics have Angels and Demons capable of being wounded and even killed when they fight creatures of similar power-levels.

I mean Custer’s powers come from offspring of the sexual union of an Angel and Demon, so clearly in the Preacher’s universe, such creatures have a physical presence and can be killed. I think the first “person” the Saint killed was Satan.

But a vampire has a physical presence, too. And a traditional weakness to holy things. How do you explain the discrepancy?

A vampire is already dead and has recupative powers. Had the Saint stood over and put a couple into Cassidy’s head he would’ve died. He shot Satan between the eyes. He make sure the Angel’s were dead and he made damn sure God was.

It wasn’t a holy thing but an unholy thing…forged from the sword of the Angel of death and fired in the pit of hell. So while it would take only a glancing shot to kill a human, it might require a head shot or several body shots to kill Angels and Demons, depending on the power levels.

Angels don’t have recuperative powers?

And as for the dead/not dead nonsense - in what meaningful way is a vampire dead that an angel isn’t? A vampire is animate, physical, and has a blood-based pseudobiology. Do the angels in the Preacher-verse Eat? Do they Breathe?

CandidGamera. Well, to be glib about it, I think it’s because in the PREACHER universe, neither God, Satan or any of the angels have souls.

Think about it. The only creatures we’ve seen in PREACHER that came back to life or living as the undead are humans, and they’ve taken the forms of ghosts and vampires. When Satan was killed in Hell, he didn’t instantly reemerge as a damned soul. He was extinguished. When God was shot in Heaven, He did go on to His eternal Reward. He was snuffed. Same as with the demons and angels. Once they died they were dead.

So Cassidy, even as a vampire, had a dead but animated body and an everlasting immortal soul. So the Saint could get rid the major metaphysical arcana with with his sword-forged magic guns impunity – but human souls could survive – could come back as ghosts, and in rare cases, vampires. (In PREACHER you only see three vampires in the entire series.) In the series end, a major revelation was that it was about how even an unholy thing like Cassidy could be redeemed.

Seriously, PREACHER was never intended to be this metaphysical. Just read the durn thing, CG

Again CandidGamera The Saint made sure they were dead. It wasn’t a glancing shot. He stood there and unloaded into them, had he done the same to Cassidy; Cassidy would be dead too.

Askia I don’t agree with you. I think that the reason that Angels and Demons are so close to GOD is why the Saint’s weapons do work on them. That they are “alive” with the same stuff that humans are and Cassidy and Ghosts lack.

I’m tempted to rethink my argument and suggest that even a glancing shot would kill a Angel, but since we see the Saint shoot them multiple times, I’ll refrain.

Now that would be a very interesting factoid - is that confirmed in the text? I had refrained from asking why God didn’t return in ghostly form and just sit on the throne an give himself his body back, assuming that there might be something like this.

Still doesn’t answer, to my satisfaction, why he can’t kill a vampire though. What do we see him kill besides Humans, Angels, and Demons? What special about the nature of Vampires in the Preacher-verse, or about Cassidy in particular?

It seems like it was intended to deal with metaphysical entities quite a bit. :wink: Or was Garth just playing angry athiest?