CandidGamera I don’t think anyone’s saying, at least I’m not, that he can’t kill a vampire, just the “ANY shot will be fatal” applies and Askia and I may be misrembering him shooting Cassidy, which renders this thing moot.
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/saintkil.htm In case anyone wants some more background.
holmes. Remember those two angels in service to the Grail that set up shop in the strip joint? There’s a scene later in the series where it’s stated that until they came to Earth and assumed human form, they had no physical wants or discomforts, no sex drive, no experience with eating or drinking or doing drugs.To me, that implies a distinct lack of them being made of the same stuff as humans.
Recalling my scripture – also alluded to in this series – humans were born of sculpted clay, but angels were created from the ether by God, and demons are but fallen angels. Again, God + angels + demons * Satan = soulless metaphysical entities but The Saint of killers + vampires + ghosts = former humans with immortal souls who can be transformed even after death. Sadly, this isn’t stated directly in the series, this is all my abstract supposition.
As for thinking I’m wrong, holmes, sheeee-- when has that ever stopped me from blathering on around here? > Grin <
CandidGamera. I kind of already explained how the doctrine of the Trinity isn’t explored in PREACHER, and the GodnSatannangelsnfallenangels being soulless was my own supposition.
A minor mystery in PREACHER comes from the fact that while vampires are described as an abomination, it’s never explained where the heck they come from in the first place. I’d forgotten until Cisco mentioned it that Cassidy can’t be killed by silver or wooden stakes or that he can’t fly or change shape. He’s just a tough bugger who’s amazingly strong who gets strung out on heroin, blown up, set on fire, shot into pieces by that Mafia torturer and allowed to grow back again, shot by the Saint and still doesn’t die. A little human blood to drink and he’s fully animated again. Also, whatever process that makes vampires appears to be incredibly rare; Cassidy only encounters one other vampire in the series besides the one that made him. No other entity except God has exhibited such an amazing ability to regenerate body parts and heal himself. The Saint can’t seemingly be harmed at all.
holmes, as I recall, the Saint shot Cassidy once in the chest in that bar where he killed all those sheriffs while looking for Jesse – right after Jesse and Cassidy had that big fight about him being a vampire. I just can’t remember if this happened in issue #3 or #4. Been at least 5 years since I read that.
CandidGamera. I’m saying that it’s unlikely that the Saint can shoot Cassidy dead with his guns because as a vampire he’s already the animated dead and he has incredible recuperative powers that repairs injuries as long as he has blood. I’ll concede that maybe a point blank shot in the head would work. Dunno.
That site really makes the idea of the Saint of Killers sound stupid to the n’th degree. Sounds about on the level with Captain Carnage.
Askia Then how do we explain the Angel and Demon whose lust created the “incident” that started the whole thing? As far as “stuff” goes, I’m talking about being “blessed” or “cursed” by the lord, something that Cassidy seems to operate outside the scope of…until the end.
And you’re right, Cassidy did get shot; just dug up my trade “Gone to Texas”.
holmes, IIRC, Jesse worked it out that God Himself caused the demon and angel to fall in lust for each other, in order to create Genesis – a union of perfect evil and goodness whose power would grow greater that God’s. God actually wanted this to happen because God – who is sustained by love – wanted the unconditional love of a being even more powerful than Himself. When Genesis escaped Heaven, God fled for fear of Genesis. When Genesis merged with Jess, God again tried to make Jesse love Him. Hijinks ensued. Until Genesis was destroyed along with Jesse’s death – or Jesse submitted to Giod’s will – God was not going to risk being a sitting target in Heaven.
Ah…that I didn’t remember. Your Preacher Foo is greater than mine, I shall bend like the reed…
What a genuinely nice thing to say, holmes.
When my Collective Works of Alan Moore-foo is this strong, then you will cease to call me Askia and refer to me as The Supreme Unflawed Master, Teacher Of Texts Amplifying Learning. (SUM TOTAL)
Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
:: Fades from this plane. ::
Would that be greater or less than “Perfect Master”? God help you if you answer the former…
Seriously, CandidGamera, you’re thinking way too hard about all this. Ennis made a boo-boo, and there’s nothing more to it. Anyone who knows anything about literature on this board knows that every writer has their own view of the powers and weaknesses of a vampire. Bram Stoker’s Dracula was nothing like Anne Rice’s Lestat. Give it a break and read the fuggin’ series already.
Adam
Actually…
[Cassidy]Read the fookin’ series already, ya bloody hooer![/Cassidy]
Adam
Agent foxtrot. Let’s get one thing straight. I don’t drink, I weigh 290 pounds, and I can’t shoot basketball. But I can, while drunk, running a three-legged race with a clone of my fat ass, playing Horse, smack dat ass of The Perfect Master any day, any time … in comic book trivia.
Well, the ones I own, at any rate.
Ok, but the problem is, without reading the books, you’re not reasoning from inside the creator’s universe. Yes, you can solve crimes with limited data, but that data still resides within the universe that you inhabit. So you can make suppositions about it. However, without reading the Preacher books, you’re not arguing from inside that universe, you’re applying things from other fiction to it, which doesn’t work. You have to work from what Ennis wrote, and that’s it. Anything else doesn’t exist there.
CandidGamera - you almost seem like you’re bordering on jerkish behavior about this, not to mention how stupid it is to sit here and argue about a book you haven’t even read. You also seem to think that the “Preacherverse” revolves around the Saint of Killers and Angels and demons, etc. I’d say that aspect of the story probably takes up less than 50 pages out of an 1,800+ page story.
You should seriously read it if you’re interested (really, it’s great), but since someone offered it to you and you said no I’m guessing you just want to be recalcitrant.
I’m trying to reason inside the creator’s universe, thus all the questions I’ve been asking to try and suss out a plausible workaround for this. Nothing I’ve heard so far makes me think it’s anything other than what Foxtrot suggests - a goof-up. And I’m really not bringing in anything external here - if the ‘God’ of the universe is a spiritual/energy being, it’s like a ghost. If it’s a physical being, is there any evidence it should be more susceptible to the bullets than a vampire?
Looking at all plausible scenarios.
And Cisco - there are other reasons for my refusing Askia’s offer to lend the books. Don’t assume you understand my motivations.
CandidGamera It wasn’t a goof. It’s really, really simple. Cassidy’s dead…A reanimated corpse. He doesn’t follow the traditional “vampire” lore. No silver. No crosses. No shapechanging. Nuthing. He eats, drinks and shites…but he is still dead.
GOD’s alive. Angels are alive. Demons are alive. Humans are alive. Take the enchanment at it’s word, stop reading so much into it. He never misses and kills whatever he hits…assuming the thing he hits is alive. That’s the enchantment, LIVING. Cassidy isn’t alive, he’s mimicing life, but not alive. Angels, Demons and humans, including GOD is alive, not on the same plan, but alive none-the-less.
Cassidy isn’t. Forget he’s a vampire…let that go. He’s already dead and therefor the Saint’s bullets don’t work the way they normally would. On him, they work as ordinary bullets and I think that Askia may be right, I don’t think the Saint can kill undead things with his bullets, unless they can die by ordinary bullets…Cassidy can’t.
What traditional vampire lore was I even referencing to make my point? Besides him being animate, physically incarnated, and drinking blood?
Does he not depend on blood? I wasn’t drawing that from “traditional vampire lore” - I got that from the descriptions of is recuperative powers form this thread and the comic hero reference site linked above for the Saint of Killers.
You mentioned vampires having a traditional weakness to holy things, Yes?..which they don’t in Preacherville. IF the Saints weapons were “holy” you would have a point, IF Cassidy was a “traditional” vampire. He isn’t and Saint guns are anything but holy.
No matter, I think there’s enough wiggle room to recognize there’s a loophole in the enchanment that created the Saint’s weapons. Ennis isn’t sloppy and I don’t think he would make a mistake on how his character’s powers work. Cassidy doesn’t die, because he’s already dead. Simple.
YMMV, of course.
That was in response to someone else’s comment that angels and demons can “traditionally” be killed by other beings of similar power levels and semidivine character.
Indeed it does. Just from the inferences I’ve been able to draw from this thread and that linked site, I’ve begun to suspect that there’s some additional sloppiness, but I didn’t want to open the second line of discussion. I’ll read Preacher eventually - or at least, one trade paperback’s worth to give it a chance. Let’s end the hijack.
I haven’t read them either; but, a God that requires a “Throne of Power” doesn’t sound like much of a God.
That’s… pretty much the essence of my second complaint that I was formulating. Or, at least, the core silliness at the center of the complaint.