How was that caused by the sexual revolution? That it was higher specifically AFTER the 1960s? That tells me nothing about the subject, and just about teen pregnancy in general.
(And no offense, but who uses the word “fornicate” anymore?)
Latex condoms have been around far longer than the pill (the 1920’s vs. the 1960’s). People switching from condoms to the pill would cause the STD rate to go up, for obvious reasons. Of course, since I will instantly have 100+ posters quote me and call me an idiot as soon as I press “Submit reply”, I suppose I’d best add in some kind cites rather than just rely on common sense. For example, if we were to look at gonorrhea:
(Here’s a graph of gonorrhea rates from 1941 - 2007.)
And this is without getting into stuff like decreased use of contraceptives, period, due to legalized abortion.
Qin Shi Huangdi writes:
> To give an example, teen pregnancy rates are highest among developed
> countries in the sexually free United States and UK as opposed to the more
> conservative Japan and South Korea
Did you bother to carefully read that Wikipedia article that you cited? Look at the table that a little more than halfway through it called “Teen birth and abortion rates, 1996, per 1000 women 15–19”. (The countries included in that table are basically all of the reasonably well-off Western nations.) It says that the United States has the highest teen birth rate among the twenty-one countries listed. The Netherlands, Sweden, Spain, and Italy have much lower birth rates, for instance. There are apparently several things influencing the teen birth rate. The Netherlands and Sweden are clearly more sexually free than the U.S., so merely being more sexually free doesn’t cause a country to have a high teen birth rate. On the other hand, being less sexually free doesn’t always cause a country to have a high birth rate, since some countries where teen birth rates are low, like Spain and Italy, also have a fair amount of stigmatization against teen births. In any case, your generalization I quoted from your post above certainly doesn’t work.
Anthony Weiner lost.
This is quite true. However the rate of teen pregnancy overall has declined sharply. It peaked at 96/1,000 in 1957. By 2000 it appears it was down to 49/1,000, at least based on preliminary data. cite.
So the evidence is certainly mixed, to say the least.
Definitely. We’re seeing more teen mothers and women with children by multiple fathers because kids aren’t getting knocked up in the sticks and then getting married. And we don’t know how many people are really getting pregnant (though the one poll I linked said 1/3 by the time of 20) because ‘pregnancy rate’ is calculated by birth, not pregnancies.
I hate to say this <wince> but the current trend is:* Have baby at 15, let mom take care of baby, get welfare, hope boyfriend has a good job someday, maybe get married and something magical will happen. Maybe I’ll even get to be a secretary or a bank teller.*
I think the laid back attitude about sex and pregnancy (in the teen years) is what’s alarming. In some areas, it’s nearly a goddamn rite of passage to get knocked up. With all of this safe sex, birth control, sexual revolution, access to condoms at the grocery store, etc…why the hell aren’t pregnancy rates nearly nil among teens? Kids are more relaxed about sex, that’s for sure.
I will gently suggest that your statement appears a bit hyperbolic. If such areas exist, at the declining rate of teen pregnancy cited above, they must be few and far between.
CitizenPained, do you ever bother to look up a statistic, as opposed to making offhand guesses in your claims? Your claims sound like you’re one of those people who say to themselves, “Things are obviously getting worse in every way. I don’t have to look up any statistics. My personal feelings are sufficient. There must be a trend in direction X for subject Y, since it would prove that things are getting worse, so therefore by definition such a trend exists.”
Lameassest strawmanning I’ve seen in weeks.
Did you note that the Netherlands, far more open than us, has a combined birth+abortion rate of 1/8th of ours, too? Your cherry-picked data dog doesn’t hunt.
Women won, thanks to the shift on control of their bodies.
Men won, because somehow pole dancing is now seen as a form of exercise (shamelessly stolen from one of my wife’s chick flicks).
As for the good old days, some data should be looked at carefully. Once upon a time my grandparents ran a hotel for women (think the old sitcom Bosom Buddies). Their tenants were 50% secretaries and 50% pregnant girls who were sent off “to visit Aunt Edda” before their condition could be known to the town. My grandmother helped arrange adoptions, and the doctor who delivered would put the adoptive parent’s names directly on the birth certificate - no record was kept of the birth mother, her condition as a pregnant teen, etc.
This no longer has to happen in the dark.
He delivered a baby and filled out paperwork in the dark? Wow, good doctor
Oh that explains why no one can read their damn handwriting!
Teenaged pregnancy started with the sexual revolution? That’s a new one.
That’s the trend, is it? Then why are teenaged pregnancy rates falling?
Well, I distinctly remember getting into certain arguments with certain persons only to have them tell me that high STD’s rates, for example, aren’t necessarily a terrible thing or reason for policy change. So I don’t think it’s a straw man.
Cite? I find it hard to believe anyone would say high STD rates aren’t a problem. They might have been saying that STD rates are actually going down, or that better sex ed is more effective that abstinence ed, but someone actually being pro-STD is highly dubious.
[cheerleader]Go, herpes, it’s our bug!
If it can’t do it, who can? shrug[/cheerleader]
Having the proper enthusiasm is a bit difficult.
Everyone won. As actual adults with real-world experience know, responsible, consensual sex is a good thing and should be enjoyed as often as possible. Adults also know not to take anyone who uses the word “fornication” at all seriously on the topic.
Actually there are plenty of people like that; the conservatives who look at STDs as God’s Wrath on sinners, or as a way of frightening or punishing “sluts”; look at right wing opposition to cervical cancer vaccine. Or in the case of AIDS, as a means of killing off as many homosexuals as possible.
Netherlands may lack censorship on sex but considering the extremely high rates of teenage sex in this country its hard to imagine it being anymore higher.
Fornication just means sex outside of marriage.