[QUOTE=Mirror Image egamI rorriM]
As a skinny girl (100-105 lbs at 5 feet 4 inches), I’m not too pleased about being called “a bag of antlers” or being told that real women have curves. It may be easier to be skinny than chubby, but it’s not great either. Clothes that look great on girls with cleavage and hips hang on me like a sack.
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We’re in the same boat. I’d kill to have a body like Kate Winslet.
[QUOTE=astro]
I’d bet most of these girls are 10-20 lbs over their “ideal” BMI.
Same here
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Dude, what are you smoking? Those girls are not overweight. Maybe the girl on the far right in the first link, and the black woman in the middle in the second, are maybe a size 10 or 12, but in no way fat. The other girls are slim/slender, and probably size 6 or 8. They all have pretty flat stomachs, and normal thighs and arms.
The Dove campaign always pissed me off because the “curvy” girls they picture are not chubby at all. I’d like to see them put a size 14, 16 or 18 woman on those ads. A woman with rolls on her stomach, back fat hanging over her bra strap, and cellulite on her thighs.
Someone mentioned the '20’s flappers. While I do think of them as very thin, I also think of most women from that era as much larger, and that that was men’s ideal then too. All the way thru the '50’s with Marilyn and Jayne Mansfield et al.
I think Twiggy was the first to really cement it as the ideal. Goldie Hawn and Diana Ross also. It has lasted since then.
In the 15 years the Body Shop exist, they have always managed to sell cosmetics without one picture of a supermodel. No pictures of unrealistic beauties hanging in the shop or in the shop-windows. None on the packaging. Subtle, but worth noticing. It IS possible to sell clothes and cosmetics without selling an unrealistic ideal of beauty.
[QUOTE=Waenara]
According to this fantastic BMI calculator, at 5’8" and 130lbs Winslet has a BMI of 19.8. Also, she is at the 8th percentile for BMI. Only 7% of women have a lower BMI.
This is “huge” according to Hollywood. :mad:
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I’m 5’10" & 182 down from an all-time high of 350. According to that calculator, my BMI is 26.1, which makes me “overweight”. I’m in the 49th percentile. Here’s a link to my obesityhelp.com page with pictures.
http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/members/profile.php?N=P1046365298
The ones in the jeans at my office were taken last Friday. Ask me if I give a good goddamn if (A) I’m “overweight” or (B) I don’t fit into the modern perception of what’s acceptable. I look good, I feel good and I am damned happy to be “average”.
VCNJ~
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Of today actresses Kate Beckinsale & Jennifer Connolly strike me as the most eye catching and beautiful. Kate appears to be very thin but something about her complete look and the beauty of her face, really gets to me. I do not think Jennifer would be accused of being too thin, but maybe I am wrong.
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Wow, you obviously haven’t seen any pictures of Jennifer Connely lately, because the last photos I saw of her, she looked completely emaciated.
If she had 2% body-fat I would be surprised.
[QUOTE=if6was9]
Someone mentioned the '20’s flappers. While I do think of them as very thin, I also think of most women from that era as much larger, and that that was men’s ideal then too. All the way thru the '50’s with Marilyn and Jayne Mansfield et al.
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Through most of her career Marilyn Monroe was skinny as hell. I’ll be damned if I now why people keep saying she wasn’t. She wasn’t emaciated like Lara Flynn Boyle, but she was thinner than Kate Winslet. I’d compare her body to Rachel Weisz.
I know, I’ve heard the stories about how she was a “size 12/16.” They’re bullshit.
[QUOTE=Scoundrel Swanswater]
Wow, you obviously haven’t seen any pictures of Jennifer Connely lately, because the last photos I saw of her, she looked completely emaciated.
If she had 2% body-fat I would be surprised.
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Actually you are right, I have not seen her lately. I am thinking of the how she looked from lets say the late 80’s into the late 90’s. She looked healthy and beautiful not emaciated.
Jim
Isn’t it so that clothing sizes were scaled differently in the past? So that size 12/14 whatever is not truly the 12/14 of today. Does anyone think that the" thin is perfect" ideal is a recent development? Looking at pop culture from the 60’s, 70’s ect, those women seemed awfully skinny as well, maybe even skinnier.
[QUOTE=RickJay]
I know, I’ve heard the stories about how she was a “size 12/16.” They’re bullshit.
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I’m pretty sure she was a 12 in Euro sizing - which is about a 6 US if I recall correctly - I have a kilt that I bought while I was in Scotland and it’s marked as a 10 - it fits about like a 6 in Canadian sizing and about a 4 in US sizing.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Oh someone mention the other day that Rachel Ray looked chubby to them. I was very confused at first and then realized they must think girls like Paris Hilton are sexy and not repulsive. I think Rachel Ray is cute with a sexy body.
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While Rachel Ray, IMO, still wouldn’t even reach up to chubby, she has been putting on weight. Skinny Rachel or Healthier Rachel, it doesn’t really matter because as soon as she starts talking, she’s Annoying-As-All-Hell Rachel.
Lissa, Mirror image-
You’ll really appreciate it when you are older.
The best evidence I ever saw in support of the OP was in the Australian magazine New Woman which my wife read. They did a piece where they showed men and women photos of naked women that showed from about mid-calf to neck. In the article they showed the photos and how the men and women felt about them.
The bodies that men thought were great the women criticised as being too fat. Men liked breasts that women thought were too small. Almost universally what women thought was desirable tended toward the model look while men preferred more…er “substantial” women.
I think **AskNott ** and **Necros ** nailed it. Fashion designers draw clothes that look great on paper – lots of vertical, flowing lines, and they tend to exaggerate the vertical elements. Nothing a fashion designer has sketched in the past 20 years has anything to do with the female shape. Actually, I don’t think they give a crap about actually clothing women, only about creating some kind of eye candy in fabric.
I don’t think the weight loss industry actually promotes super-thinness. God knows they have plenty of us fatsos to keep 'em in business forever (I’ve paid a king’s ransom in Weight Watcher’s fees but, hey, it’s working, so I’m not bitching.) But I think the constant bombardment of weight loss commercials, combined with the natural self-doubt of young adolescent girls, causes a lot of girls to think they’re overweight when they’re really not.
Mostly, though, I blame the fashion industry because, frankly, I simply don’t see any reason for it to exist. Like Paris Hilton, the entire fashion industry exists only to entertain the super-rich.
[QUOTE=RickJay]
I know, I’ve heard the stories about how she was a “size 12/16.” They’re bullshit.
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Well, not technically bullshit - she WAS about a size 12 or so most of the time when she was famous (her weight did fluctuate). But a size 12 in the 1950’s is quite different than a size 12 today. A 50’s 12 is closer to a 6 or maybe 8 in today’s sizing. So yeah, she was bigger than the average movie star NOW, but still smaller than the average woman as a whole.
I wear a size 8 now, and I’ll be damned if I’m as small or smaller than Marylin Monroe. Vanity sizing!
[QUOTE=RickJay]
That’s my point. To most men, she IS thirty pounds heavier.
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blink
Maybe I’m stupid, but I don’t get it. Huh?
Angelina Jolie’s pretty emaciated… how is she “30lbs heavier”? And when has the general male population either a) hoped that she would be, b) said she was, or c) cheered for any recent weight gain?
I think it’s ridiculous the focus people have placed on weight. Even when Kirstie Alley was at her heaviest, I still thought she was attractive because her humor made her shine.
My wife has always struggled with her weight, has tried diet after diet. You know what? I don’t care. When I first met her I was attracted by her intelligence, humor and personality. She has the most beautiful green eyes I’ve ever seen. Any time she tells me that she doesn’t feel beautiful, I take her face in my hands and have her look into my eyes. She can see how much I love her and how beautiful I think she is. In my eyes, she is the most beautiful woman in the world. I wouldn’t trade her for J Lo, Angelina Jolie, Jessica Alba or Marilyn Monroe.
She knows that I’m no Brad Pitt and my six pack abs have turned into a min-keg. She doesn’t care. She loves me for who I am.
I’m not saying that I can’t appreciate the beauty of another woman. But Callista Flockhart and Lara Flyn Boyle are too damn skinny. When bones are clearly visible, then they need to eat a sandwich.
[QUOTE=Lumpy]
It’s hardly new. The flapper movement dates to the 1920’s. I think it began when women began asserting themselves in roles other than wife and mother. The rail-thin look is the opposite of the “brood mare” look of big hips and bust. There’s also the old tradition of whatever is hard to achieve is valued. Now that obestiy is epidemic, thinness is in.
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Even the flappers, though, weren’t as skinny as today’s models are. For example have a look at Clara Bow (safe for work) dressed as a boxer or not at all (NOT SAFE FOR WORK!!!) You’ll notice that she is by no means overweight, but also nowhere near Kate Moss territory. NOTE: for obvious reasons, I can’t verify that the second link will work.
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[QUOTE=CarlyjayAngelina Jolie’s pretty emaciated… how is she “30lbs heavier”?[/QUOTE]
I think **Rickjay ** meant that the camera adds those 30 pounds, so the image the male fans have of Jolie is less skinny then she is in real life.
Thin OR curvy, there is a real cattiness among women about this issue that has nothing to do with the fashion industry, or men (although I am not saying either of these doesn’t influence the ideal). I’ve noticed most women don’t go out of their way to be complimentary or supportive of their fellow women. There is a real feeling of competitiveness that we have to eradicate. It’s true that some of the ugliest things said about women are said by other women. Why is that?
