Who's really responsible for the "thin is perfect" female ideal? Hint -It's not men

In My Humble Opinion
61

I absolutely can’t argue with this. But I can also say that the number of women who have called me fat or “kindly” suggested I lose some weight is far greater than the number of men who have done so. Men just ignore me and go for my skinny friends.

I’m overweight. I’m not morbidly obese, I’m not unhealthy, but I’ve been overweight for as long as I can remember. I’ve got rolls, I’ve got dimples, I’ve got things that jiggle. I see the women the media glorifies and sometimes I wince because they make me feel as if I am less. But I also like eating carbs and having ice cream for dessert on occasion and not constantly worrying about gaining half a pound.

62

You look gorgeous!

63

You could reply that not all the curves are supposed to be convex. :wink:

64

slight hijack - I find BMI to be a helpful tool, is it understood not to be realistic? My Dr. told me I was not overweight at my last checkup and my BMI is just under 23. Last year I lost 20 pounds when my previous BMI was just under 26, and my Dr. suggested I lose a little weight. I agreed with him, I could see that I had excess weight and now I am not stick thin by any means but I feel and look better. Now I work at keeping my BMI around 22-23 because I have acid reflux and weight makes it worse.

I can see why maybe BMI would not be a perfect indicator for say, an olympic athlete or extreme body builder who has lots of muscle weight, but for the average person isn’t it a pretty good indicator?

I am talking about ‘overweight’ here as a medical term, that puts you at increased risk of disease and stuff, not ‘overweight’ as people might use the term to describe how they look. I also think that people are starting to use the word ‘overweight’ to mean “fatter than average” but IMO we are used to seeing overweight people now and think of them as average. If that makes sense.
Anyway, I would guess most of the women in those Dove ads are within normal weight and BMI. Maybe a few of the bigger ones might be a 25 or 26. We just see them as big since we are used to seeing super skinny models, so next to the average model they look huge.
This is just the third or so thread I have seen lately that says BMI is not a good indicator of good weight, so I wondered since my Dr. uses it.

65

I’m sorry, I thought it was quite clear. Let me try this again:

Most men have never seen Angelina Jolie except on film, either still or motion.

People appear much, much heavier on film than they really are. A person who weighs, say, 110 pounds will appear on film as 130-140 pounds to a casual observer.

Therefore, most men have only seen Angelina Jolie in a context where she appears to be substantially larger than she actually is. If she actually weighs 110 pounds, the great majority of all the men in the world have only seen an Angelina Jolie who APPEARS to weigh at least 130, maybe 140 pounds.

Therefore, the impression most men have of Angelina Jolie is of a woman who is 5’8" and weighs about 130 pounds or so - which is a much healthier weight than her real weight, assuming she’s as skinny as you say she is. So when men say they think she’s gorgeous, they are describing a woman who appears, for all they can see, to be of healthy weight.

If all the men in the world were to meet her in real life and discover she only weighed 105, they would very likely have a somewhat different impression of her.

66

It always surprises me when women say this. I don’t doubt your experience, but it makes me think that I’m either extraordinarily lucky in the women I know, or that women elsewhere must be much meaner.

67

Probably a little of both. My friends are supportive and helpful. I find most of the derogatory things I hear about myself from women come from women who don’t know me at all.

68

Oh, I have supportive friends as well, but that’s rather easy, isn’t it? It’s much harder to draw yourself out of your safe zone and tell a complete stranger that they look nice, or that you like thier outfit or purse.

69

:cool:

I see my check cleared.

VCNJ~

(Honestly - thank you - I really feel great!)

70

Some thoughts:

–I have a lot of women friends. They never, ever rag me or each other about their weight. I would also never go up to someone and tell her to lose weight. That’s fucking rude. We have been known to comment on people who are flagrantly dressed badly or unflatteringly, but this is not confined to people who are overweight by any means.

–Some of my friends are “bag of antlers” thin, some are normal, and a couple are overweight, but they all think they are fat. I think this is terrible because they are all beautiful and, no matter how they look naked (I don’t have THAT information), they look good in the clothes they choose to wear.

–Almost all my female 7th grade students claim to think they are fat. Very, very few of them are, but they point to things like a round belly as proof. :confused:

–My BMI is 25; however, considering my build, which is stocky, and my bust size, which is large, and my age, I’m in the 35th percentile, which makes me slightly above average in thinness. So I’m not sure what a borderline fat BMI but top 35% thinness for my build and age would indicate about the accuracy of the BMI. I think I could lose 10-15lbs. My boyfriend says no.

–Angelina Jolie is an attractive woman. A lot of what makes me think she is beautiful is her face. She also has a nice chest. However, her arms and her legs are too thin. It’s not that they don’t have fat on them that makes them unappealing; it’s that they have no muscle. There’s like sticks in that they don’t widen at all as they get closer to the torso, and that’s not attractive to me. Does not detract from the beauty of her face and torso, though.

–The covers of Maxim and those type magazines are airbrushed all to hell. No real woman in the world is that flawless.

–erie774, you are a sweetheart.

–VCNJ, I think you look great in your pictures.

71

I actually do this a lot. Partly because it feels so nice when others do it to me!

But I agree that women tend to be far more critical of other women’s appearances than men.

72

I was out shopping with my sister one day, and noticed a billboard advertising women’s plus size clothes. Several models were shown, each frolicking about in a different outfit from the manufacturer’s line. I looked at each one of them in turn, and decided that something was definitely wrong. Not one of the ladies shown even remotely resembled my concept of a “plus size” model. I pointed this out to my sister.

After glancing at the billboard for a moment, my sister snorted, looked back at me, and informed me in that “let me tell you about the ways of the world” tone that she takes on from time to time, “bro, they ARE plus sizes.”

“Aw, come ON,” I protested. “Those models are NOT fat.”

She shot me the “men are such dense creatures” look. “Maybe *you *can’t tell because the clothes and makeup are flattering to larger frames. But women can always tell. And those models are fat.”

:dubious:

73

Thank you, Ruby - I clean up good :stuck_out_tongue:

VCNJ~

74

I just want to reiterate that you weigh 182, size 14 jeans and medium top. I am very comfortable when I am 180s as well. But people seem to refer to anything over 150 as FAT and of course 300 lbs as the absolute limit!

75

Not really, no.

I’ve said such things to strangers and had them said to me - even in incredibly reserved Seattle.

So, after the OP coming in, showing pictures of women in a normal (not overweight) BMI range and who are below average for American women and saying “See, they’re kind of fat, but ok enough.” I’m leaning even more strongly toward “men” as the answer to where a great deal of the pressure is coming from.

76

Your sister is wrong, unless she thinks a size 8 or 10 is “fat.” I read somewhere (sorry no cite) that plus size models are usually size 8, 10 or 12. That would mean they aren’t even big enough to shop at the plus size shops, which start at size 14 and up.

The reason they use those models to sell plus size clothes is because they make the clothes look good, because they don’t look fat, but also don’t look skinny - they look normal and healthy.

Regular models, the kind you see on runways and in magazines… the top size for them is usually a size 4. For example, I saw that movie “The Devil Wears Prada,” and the main character is a frumpy girl who is a size 6, and they give her a makeover and people kept saying she was too “fat” to fit into the model clothes, and that the biggest sizes they had were size 4. Now I know it was a movie but I believe that that is an accurate portrayal of reality.

77

I didn’t see where he described them as “OK enough.” More like:

I don’t see any caveats in astro’s expressions of lust.

Most of the women in the picture are at the heavy end of the normal range for BMI. A couple are just barely into the overweight range. Those women are supposed to represent “real beauty,” not “real fat.” Do you think they should promote being overweight as being beautiful?

78

Maybe then people will stop making “jokes” about it and nagging me to eat. If that’s so, I have something to look forward to.

79

Case in point: This model is a plus size model:



And so is she:


I mean, come on, please. None of those women are fat. It’s just that since they’re size 10s and not size 2s, they are considered “plus size.”

80

It’s not the dress size. It’s the proportion of height to weight. I would be FAT at 130. My 5’ 8" sister would be thin.