Depends on where you go. Few, if any, dress like him at the symphony, fine restaurants, etc. around here. Those that do certainly stand out. When they stop standing out is when the rules have truly changed.
Speaking of strawmen.
BTW, in case it was unclear – I’m actually cool with wearing casual non-jean pants and a collared, button-down short to a fancy-frou place. It’s your insistance on a t-shirt and jeans that would distract me.
Can’t/Won’t do suit-and-tie? There are many options.
Why do these two situations get a pass, exactly?
Concerning the first one, should I then undersand that not dressing up is an evidence that you don’t care about people?
Except it is the same as the library dress code only says what is not allowed. As The restaurant code says as well because in our hypothetical restauarant, they only follow decency laws as DocCathode continues to be allowed to eat there.
Wow. This has been an educational thread. I mean that seriously. I’d no idea that people had such a wide variety of opinions - STRONG opinons - about what other people wear.
I still say that under the most mundane of circumstances, I’m being respectable as long as my person and my clothes are clean and tidy, and I don’t look like 5 pounds of sausage stuffed in a 3 pound sack. YMMV. In conclusion, I believe I’ll take a page out of UrbanChic’s book:
I didn’t say I was against black tie. I didn’t say I was against mandatory jacket and tie. I said any dress code.
Re Strawman
I disagree. Guinastasia was longing for a bygone era (as she was with the Titanic dinner) and speaking of hats and gloves of signs of civility. I reminded her what that time was really like. If she had simply said ‘I like snoods. More women should wear snoods.’ or a similar statement devoid of historical context, then my statement would have been out of place.
Clairobscur I hate having to wear a suit etc. Those who are close to me know this. So when I wear a suit to their event, it is a clear sign of just how much I care about them. They realize that I am willing to something I dislike intensely in order to make them happy. The list of people I will wear a suit for is small.
Business situations get a pass for a simple reason. You have to do many pointless things to keep your job.
Not wearing a suit is, to an extent, a sign that I don’t care about people. I don’t care about the other diners, however, I will be quite, odorless, and other wise not disturb their meal (I disagree with saoirse’s claim that a single look at jeans and t-shirt ruins the meal for everyone). I do care about the waitstaff, but I feel that the proper way to express this is verbal communication. If nothing else, these people can slow things down or taint my food if angered. I care about the cooks. I don’t feel that my clothing (which they won’t see) is necessary to express politeness to them either.
I wasn’t saying that the past was more civil, I’m saying I think it’s a shame we don’t dress as nice as we once did.
Well the people who work there do feel that way. Maybe illogically, but they do.
What are these ‘decency laws’ you speak of? Should I ask Bricker about this?
Decency has nothing to do with it. Any restaurant with a posted, or otherwise clearly made known to the public, dress code has the right under US laws, to kick you out for not meeting the dress code. They also have the right to refuse to admit you if you do not meet the dress code. If they feel the need to follow the ‘decency laws’ , why not just say ‘Sir, while you seem like a fine individual, and we should be happy to have your custom, the owners are quite strict about the dress code. I regret then, that I may not admit you. I humbly request that you return in a tuxedo. At that time, it shall be my pleasure to get you a table. Until then, I must bid you good night.’
I misunderstood you then. Sorry about that.
Personally, I want a return to cloaks and hooded cloaks. They go with anything and look unbearably cool.
The number of senior citizens keeps growing. I fully expect a return to walking sticks and decorative canes.
Saoirse First, you’re speaking for a rather large group of people. While some will think my clothing rude, not all of them will. Most will find it out of place and nothing more. After speaking to me, the waiter will find that I am not some stereotypical ignorant bumpkin, but a perfectly nice man who for some inexplicable reason, is wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
If you have accurately represented your dress code, then it does not only say what is not allowed. It also states what should be worn.
Person A: You should wear formal (or at least Sunday-best) attire to a “Fancy Five Star Restaurant” because, although it is unwritten, it is expected.
Person B: Oh yeah? Well, the dress code at the library says I can wear jeans, so I wear jeans to the library. Take that!
This seems to be the statement you were making. There’s a bit of a disconnect, there.
They actually don’t need a written dress code. They can refuse to seat you because they don’t like the look of your face (bouncers at high profile clubs do it all the time - line pick who will be and won’t be admitted based on appearance and dress). No need for anything in writing.
Most places I know will be happy to seat you in the bar if you don’t conform to their dress code.
Arbitrary, n’est ce pas?
Now, now. there’s no need for that kind of language.
It’s arbitrary yes. But, I’m enforcing one of my rules on anybody else. I hope that they will come back into fashion. But, I don’t want a situation where anybody is forced to wear a cloak. If some restaurant had a mandatory cloak policy, I’d object to that.
:smack: That should read I’m NOT.
I would so go to a restaurant like that! It would fall somewhere along the same scale as Guin’s Titanic Party. Something required, but required for the sheer fun of it!
I even have a cloak! Mine is green wool, lined with burgundy satin.
Relax Doc, I’m on your side.
All I meant by decency laws was that as long as you’re not using your dick as a salad fork you’re covered according to the letter of the law.
Anything after that is a dress code, which our tshirt and jeans is not offending, but yet we’re still wrong.
You know, just because.
You know … come to think of it, Doc … the nudity taboo (heck, any taboo) is merely learned behavior. And I’ve read here that you hold learned behaviors as illegitimate.
Laws, shmaws … fight the nudity taboo like you would any other learned behavior.
It is with the same dismay that I find that the local RenFaire has fewer and fewer people in cloaks. They still shouldn’t be denied admission, but can’t anyone make a freaking effort anymore?