Why are Americans so disliked worldwide?

Great Debates
141

grins
I have an anecdote, although I’ll beg the forgiveness of you all before I defend my point… It refers to me, Canadian, as a tourist in America.

I went down the Eastern seaboard a few years ago with my family. My stepfather is from Pennsylvania; the rest of my family are Newfoundlanders, like me. I enjoyed the trip, got to see many different States (Maine was the furthest south we’d gone up til then… its much like Canada, bigger blueberries though) So seeing the differences from State to State was interesting; especially private trailer parks where no pets were allowed (!!), I think that was New Hampshire. ANYWAY, when we got on the road from Lancaster, we headed south again, until we just passed into northern Georgia. There, we stopped at a small gas station and filled our motorhome.

I did the honours (Yes, I spelled that right). As I was standing next to the pump, a man pulled up in a chevy pickup, and started to fill up on the other side of the island. Noticing the license plate on our vehicle, he started to talk to me.

“Oh, y’all frahm New-FOUND-land?” says he.
“We are,” I replied, “Just visiting your country for a couple of weeks.”

“Wahl, Ah wuz stationed in Ah-gent-iah durin’ the Wahr. [Note: Argentia was one of several American owned and operated bases in Newfoundland, c. WW2. It was strictly a naval base, and also the last to formally close, in the early 1990’s] Boy, Ah’ll tell ya, I wuz there in thuh wintah of '43… and Ah’ve nevah seen so much snow in muh lahfe. It wuz so cold! Mah, that place musta been North of the Ahtic Circle!” and similar continuing observations about our general climate, geographic location, and the friendliness of the locals. I nodded and smiled; if I had started in my own particular accent, we would have both required interpreters anyway.

But my point: While jealousy has been debated, as a reason for American tourists being (near) universally despised, I think this would only be a partial explanation for their less-than-favored standing. Personally, I’d see it being something much closer to “ignorance”, and I don’t mean that in a totally degrading way. I am personally ignorant of many things about America; I can’t name all the States, nor the capitals of the ones I do know; furthermore, while US TV does wonders for the politics of a country, it doesn’t cover all (and media bias tends to focus on the bad things… murders, crime, etc). I freely admit that I wish I knew more about how Americans choose to celebrate Thanksgiving (foods, customs… heck having a month of “holiday time” seems so extravagent, its seductive)

This Georgian I met… I have to use him as a general, un-solicited model for American behaviour, and I realize that he’s probably not indicative in and of himself, but its this ignorance of “basics” that tourists get themselves in trouble over… that I think has been expressed time and time again in the posts here. The problem is that “basics” are relative. What’s “kosher” here is “taboo” there, and so forth.

Now, I also think that, as a navy man, this guy should have had a better understanding of where Newfoundland, and particularly Argentia, IS. And we tend to exagerrate things over time, a good story like that darn-near demands a little glitz (15 feet of snow! in 3 hours it fell, Ah swear!) The view that “Its Canadian, its therefore snow-covered” is nothing new, either.

If you want an idea to chew on, think about WW2… why did the US enter? Because it was defending the free world, and by putting the lives of young americans on the line, its own right to defend its constitution against the likes of Nazism and facism? YES, thats why, but ONLY after it was attacked. I’ll give you folks that; since that war, I’m a lot less able to say there were high-faluting motives like “Liberty, Justice, Freedom of expression” operating in American foreign policy.

There are many things I admire in America and its people; some of your finest hours have been opened to the world as a shared moment, like Neil Armstrong’s step onto the moon after 12 years of frantic space-race. I wish Canada had something like that to rally behind, from time to time, especially as a second generation Canadian (Note: Newfoundland joined Canada in 1949, by referendum). The only thing that has come and gone for our national pride is the Avro Arrow, and that got scrapped by our government. Consequently, some of the greatest minds in aeronautics (and, it turns our, astronautics) emigrated to work for NASA.

I don’t want to appear apologetic, either. I remember clearly, during my own travels in Europe, being told by our tour leader (school-led tour through europe) to prominently display our Canuck flags and not to worry. In Switzerland, we ran into a tour group from Florida, on the top of a mountain outside Luzern (again, my own ignorance is evident, I can’t remember the name of the mountain). A time of national pride, that… snowballs flew ineffectually at random from the American side, and the Canadians were never in finer form, replying with some beautiful orbs in the face. That evening we re-encountered that group in a restuarant; in the middle of the evening’s entertainment, one vocal girl stood to issue us a challenge to “Any water sport” in which they would kick our asses. We offered to race them in canoes… “Thats not a water sport!” the reply. I, and P.E.Trudeau, might beg to differ.

Regards to my american in-laws,

Jai Pey

===
James Parsons
IANBABAIBOTID
“…because the only people for me are the MAD ones…” - J Kerouac

142

Jai Pey-

Your points are well-taken. Careful with the Georgia-bashing though; I do get defensive! :wink:

Seriously, you do seem close to judging Georgians, and Americans generally, based on one encounter at a gas station.

I have vacationed in Canada several times. Do you doubt that I have encountered individuals there equally ignorant of my home?

OK, I’ll let my hackles fall now. :slight_smile:

143

Spoke,

i don’t doubt at all, my point exactly. Just as I used mr. Gas-station to illustrate all Americans, I stand to illustrate all Canadians. Largely defensive, borderline politically correct, far too polite for our own good, and shivering from the cold while we watch American TV.

When it comes close to bashing Georgia: well… how about this? As any american stateman ought to know, no department of defense ever won a war. :wink:

Georgia was nice enough, hot as heck and I liked that. I wish I’d seen more of it. Atlanta in particular.

Regards,

jai pey

===
James Parsons
IANBABAIBOTID
“…because the only people for me are the MAD ones…” - J Kerouac

144

Oh, it gets better. Just see what she posted at 1:54 am today.

Here’s that link again.

I would suggest that someone who dislikes blacks and Mexicans as much as NightGirl does might be happier in some other countries where there are fewer of them than in America. Iceland perhaps :slight_smile:

145

Jai Pey:
While reading your story about the Georgian you met, I thought you were going to remark on the friendliness and folksiness of some Americans. I was really surprised when you took this as “typical American ignorance.” The man went out of his way to make conversation with you and tell you about his fond memories of his time spent in your country. The Arctic Circle comment was probably just his way of illustrating the extremes in weather between Georgia & Canada…you have to admit, there is a big difference. Don’t forget, just because a person has a American Southern accent, doesn’t mean he’s stupid - although you wouldn’t know it from the stereotypes you may see in the movies and on t.v.
Besides, it is so much easier to go through life always considering that people are acting out of the best intentions, instead of the worst.

146

This is the most exhausting thread I’ve ever read!

America is a great country. It’s enough that we Americans know that. We
shouldn’t feel like we need to convince the rest of the world. In fact attempting to do so is just rude. It’s also rude (and bigoted) to make generalizations about a whole country, especially if you have never been there. It’s interesting that the most moderate non-American responses are from those who have actually lived in the USA.

A tip for all you tourist-bashers: Tourists are like fish out of water. Even the most prepared tourist can’t be certain how he should behave in a new country. Make the same allowances for him as you would hope he might make for you if you ever visited his country. Don’t assume that manners and mores are universal. Most of all treat them as individuals. Don’t assume “stupid American” as soon as you see a pair of sneekers.

Sorry, if this sounds preachy, but, damn it, half the people who have posted on this thread need “Diversity Awareness” training.

Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.

147

No, ruadh, she likes English Blacks. After all, they don’t sound like Blacks. Black people have American accents don’t they?

I’m only sorry that I made the mistake of assuming that it was worth arguing with her in the first place.

148

Jai Pey, I have to say I thought the same thing as C3 about your thread. Sounds to me like the guy was just making pleasant small talk, something which, in my experience, Americans are better at than anyone else.

Elmer,

It is also interesting, is it not, that some of the most intemperate American responses have come from someone (Sentinel) who claims to have extensive experience of the non-American world.

149

Isn’t that the same guy who also claimed that Arthur C. Clarke was an American?

Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.

150

are we? this statement you are making is very far from the truth in addition to be a pointless one. read the thread again and then tell me if you still think you are right.

bj0rn

151

In response to C3 et al,

I agree… he was very friendly, and I appreciated it enough to continue talking, and to thank him to boot. I never forgot it, either.

Friendliness among locals is a trait found far and few between, I also agree. And I come from one of those places where its commented upon, much like in ireland. The problem for tourists in these places (as I illustrate in the way I tell the story) is the patronizing tone they use when they relate the experience. Doesn’t endear you much to me, does it?

“How rustic… the little Newfie knows more than 2 syllable words, and he doesn’t even have most of the accent.”

Tongue in cheek,

Jai Pey

===
James Parsons
IANBABAIBOTID
“…because the only people for me are the MAD ones…” - J Kerouac

152

bj0rn,

You wrote:

Far from the truth? Pointless? Perhaps you just failed to understand my point. Perhaps I failed to make it adequately. Let me try once again. My point, in a nutshell is this:

We are all different. We all have our own cultural influences that bias the way we perceive things around us at any given time. Body language is not universal, nor are the interpretations of spoken or written English. Not just from country to country but also within a country, especially large countries. For instance, people from California often complain about the rudeness of New Yorkers and vice versa. Anytime you make a judgement about someone else’s motives or intelligence or politeness, that judgement is tainted by your own cultural knowledge and any counter cultural stereotypes that you may have accumulated. Much of the anti Americanism that I have been exposed to in real life and on this board has come from people who have not really tried to understand the American culture and why we behave the way we do. Non Americans tend to dismiss the impact of the American culture just as much as Americans ignore the cultural mores of other countries.

There are certainly enlightened individuals from all cultures who are more adept at recognizing and accepting differences, but the majority of people in developed cultures seem to be more willing to just point fingers and snicker about the differences they don’t understand.

Yeah, I stand by my position - in spite of the fact that you may think it’s false or pointless.

153

Elmer, Yes it is. His general pattern has been to claim that anything good is American and anything bad is foreign. He does not allow this strategy to be hampered by the facts.

154

Okay, I’ve gone in this thread from being embarassed by the Flag-waving, Anthem-belching, defenders of the U.S. to being offended by the openly condescending, tendentious, American-bashing of their detractors - some of those also from the U.S. itself.

I think certain countries do become ascendent for a certain period of time in history: In the ancient world, Greece was for about three centuries the most dynamic, productive, and culturally interesting country in the world (in my opinion and, I would venture to say, most other people’s). Then it was Rome. Then, for a very long time, it was China. Then it was the Islamic cultures. In the seventeenth century it was France (at least among western nations). By the nineteenth century it was Britain. And yes, I believe that now the United States holds this position, largely because we are a magnet for so many ambitious people from around the globe.

Those who claim the accomplishments, ancient and modern, of other nations are petty or easily dismissed are just fools. But those who claim that the accomplishments and dynamism of the U.S. are the products of a nation of ignorant boors, or that the social problems we have or have had negate our successes, are in my opinion equally foolish. And I’m struggling to moderate my language, here.

Nevertheless, I have seen a tendency by many people in other nations to belittle American culture, American achievements, American products, and so on - the tall poppy syndrome alluded to earlier. And it’s happening here. Sometimes there is merit in these criticisms; more often it amounts to “you could be so much better if you were just a little more…well, like us!” This nonsense has cropped up on this thread, now, and is seriously distracting from the more mature discussion a few people (TomH, JoeyBlades, and some others) are struggling to have.

155

Jai Pey:
I’m just going on the bits of the conversation you related to us, but exactly what could he have said that would not have been taken as “patronizing” to you? I think sometimes (and, again, I don’t know the whole conversation that took place, so I could be wrong in your situation) non-Americans are a little trigger happy when it comes to criticizing Americans. Any imagined tone of voice or comment is taken as rude, patronizing, demanding, or any of the other adjectives used in some of the above posts.
As previously mentioned, it seems like it’s very PC to bash Americans and I think sometimes people are looking a little too hard for trespasses against their non-American sensibilities.

As I said before, it’s much easier to go through life assuming people are acting out of the best intentions than out of the worst. You may find you have more in common with an American from the Deep South than you imagined…and that he has respect for you that wasn’t conveyed in the same way a fellow Canadian would convey it.

156

NightGirl, it turns out, is an equal-opportunity basher. In the thread linked below, she has a go at southerners.
http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001003.html

Seems she’s just hostile, generally.

157

This is an exhausting thread, but I somehow felt compelled to add a post.

Let’s see… to start with, my ancestors arrived in the New World in the late 1600’s, so I guess that makes me as American as anyone. I come from 8 generations of Southerners (which apparently makes my intelligence suspect), have travelled extensively throughout Western Europe, Mexico and Central America, AND lived outside the US for many years.

There are lots of good things about other countries and the US has many faults. The US is not alone in having its fare share of loud-mouthed jerks. However, the US has a disproportionately large presence in international tourism, consumer goods and media (news, movies, music, TV, etc) due to our population and economic strength, in comparison to other countries. I noticed from time living outside the US that some people (note: I am NOT making generalizations about entire nationalities!) tend to have a bit of a chip on their shoulders about the US. The natural defense to that is occasionally be derogatory towards Americans. BUT, none of my friends really want to move here. It’s just not their home and “home” counts for a lot.

158

PHEW!

I am an American, and feel lucky to be born and raised in this country. I am glad, that as a woman, I have opportunities that do not exist in some places. I am glad I have decent health care, and live in relative freedom. I am glad I have the right to criticize my goverment, and if I chose, run for office. But it is not a perfect country. And it is not the only country in the world that has these benefits. To stand up on a box and proclaim “The US is best!” is ignorant. Sure, inovation is a big part of our background, but so what? For the sake of this thread, who cares what American invented what item (and I find it amusing that some of my fellow Americans have failed to recognize that their examples of inventors were not American!). Since when does being rich = being best? So we help out countrys who have disasters, so what? Some people in this thread seem to think America is great because we have the resources to help out countrys with disasters, YET are indignant that no one helps us out! How petty! Is this what makes America so great? The citizens of one of the richest countrys in the world bitching about the lack of disaster relief? I find all of this posturing childish and akin to “I’m tuffer and biiger then you are, so nahnahnahnahnah!” I am embarassed for my compatriots.

Now, as far as travel goes… Someone rightly stated that you cannot know every local custom. BUT, I think as a traveler, it benefits everyone if you at least try to learn something. Most people don’t jet off to Europe like they’re going to spend the weekend at the Dells. You have time before your trip. Buy a book. Learn how to say hello and thank you and goodby. Learn about what might be offensive. C’on, people, they write books about this subject! It’s polite to at least try.

I went to England when I was 16 with my school (wonderful trip, someday I hope to make it back). The first place we went to was a Pizza Hut (UGH!). After my teacher explained that the English find it rude to eat with your hands, two of my classmates proceded to pick up their slices and chow down. One girl said, “this is how I eat pizza. If they have a problem with it, screw 'em”. It’s this kind of additude that that gives us Americans a bad name. But I hope the people in that English Pizza Hut saw 10 American kids who did pick up forks and knives, so as not to seem like rude Americans.

(I give my usual excuse for poor spelling that may apear in this post-- it’s late and I am sick-- again! Pleese foregiv!)

Dizzy

You people have been holding me back long enough! I’m going to clown college!

159

I make a concerted effort to avoid American fast food chains when I’m abroad. I don’t go to other countries to eat at Burger King. But I have seen busloads of American tourists walk right past independent cafés and even national chain restaurants to stand in a long line for their Big Mac. It’s kind of sad.

These are the same people that buy USA Today instead of picking up the local paper, even when they’re in an English-speaking country. I just don’t understand why anyone would bother taking a holiday somewhere if they have so little interest in the local culture.

(This is not directed at you Dizzy - I realize you probably had no choice where to eat!)

160

and even if i have said

APR9999(american if im not mistaken)

and tomndebb

versus mr.z

and nightgirl

you still dare to say this

whos the insensitive one around here? should i say that is typical among americans, granted that you are right about

but when you say

in this thread, you are really referring to americans(remember, you said majority)

yes, this subject is fit for the pit

notice how theese people ARE making a generalization about an entire nationality. you are talking in individual terms. ive got no problem with that and ive always said that its not the people, its the group of people that bother me. groups, as rousseau so accurately points out with his sig line, suffer from a decreased intelligence in relations with the number of people in the group. and im going to be so bold as to say that america has the biggers groups of people in the world.

perhaps you americans want to start a thread called “why is the rest of the world so disliked in america?”

thanks dizzy for a good post, i sure wish every american (or any other nationality) was like you and your 9 classmates.

whats the point in traveling when its just like home?

bj0rn