Why are Americans so patriotic?

[Nava]

@Horatio_Hellpop

They have a somewhat different relationship to the police and the military than children of other nations do.

Well, yes: they’re the only citizens of a developed and generally pacific country to view cops as the enemy and lawyers as prophets rather than as helpful people and dudes with a degree in pushing paper, respectively.

[Alessan]

@Nava

Well, yes: they’re the only citizens of a developed and generally pacific country to view cops as the enemy

Are you kidding? Maybe things will change in light of recent events, but the French, for instance, *hate *cops.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@John_Mace

I’ve never heard even one politician use that phrasing unless he was specifically talking about the war or the military.

Its like you never saw a republican national convention.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Horatio_Hellpop

American kids are trained from Kindergarten onward to recite a Pledge of Allegiance, to worship the flag as a borderline deity, and to accept that money is worth what the government says it is. They have a somewhat different relationship to the police and the military than children of other nations do. They’re shown pictures of kids from other, less functional countries and admonished to eat their green beans because kids in Africa and China would be immeasurably grateful to get such a treat for dinner. And a lot of them go through life without questioning any of this.

Hehe, you’re not from here are you?

[rogerbox]

@Nava

Well, yes: they’re the only citizens of a developed and generally pacific country to view cops as the enemy

Oh how I wish that were true, but it isn’t that way, remotely.

[Kobal2]

@Alessan

Are you kidding? Maybe things will change in light of recent events, but the French, for instance, *hate *cops.

Oh come on, we don’t hate them ! We just think they’re by and large a bunch of drunken, racist, barely literate power-tripping assholes who love nothing more than splitting protesters’ skulls and harassing the poor.
But other than that, they’re a fine body of men and women.

[Sitnam]

@Kobal2

I think the converse is as much of a factor as US dynamics, namely : nationalism/patriotism has garnered a lot of bad press in other Western countries over the past few decades. We French remember Vichy and French Algeria (or rather, we’d really rather not). The Brits also have some Imperial guilt to work through. Germany… yes. Same goes for Japan, Italy and Spain, all of whom had their brutal dictators putting a strong emphasis on nationalism.

So naturally, ardent patriotism is viewed with some measure of suspicion there ; not the least bit because that’s the far right’s hat still. Besides, it’s really tacky.

Not sure about the Scandiwegian countries, but then again they’re not really a huge international media presence. The only countries I can think of where die-hard nationalism is still very much a cultural thing are some of the countries of the old Eastern bloc (you do NOT want to diss Serbia, or should I say Glorious Eternal Srbja, in the presence of a Serb :)) and Russia. Maybe Israel too, but I’m not all too familiar with the culture there.

Very close to the mark, I think. I long for the day the far right is viewed with suspicion here and criticism for missing flag pins is considered tacky.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@Stoneburg

I agree that there is definitely an unhealthy connotation to patriotism here. If a swede tells me he/she is a patriot, what I hear is actually ”racist”. That’s because the connection patriotism - nationalism - nazism I guess. And the idea that your culture, or any culture, is superior to another is a meme that is suppressed here. Which leads to some problems itself, including a backlash of nationalism from people who get angry that ”It’s not OK to be proud of being Swedish” and similar sentiments.

Naturally of course, hence the need for a sensible, progressive form of nationalism that is genuinely respectful of the national heritage while not falling prey to the jingoists. I personally consider myself a social democratic nationalist and my belief in social democracy and American nationalism are intimately related in that regard-it is because I care for the greatness and prosperity of my nation that I believe that social democratic policies will secure a decent livelihood for its citizen body as nationalism should not just be concerned with the nation in the abstract but with the good of the actual people that make it up and without which the nation cannot exist.

[up_the_junction]

@mbh

The USA, on the other hand, ended each war richer and stronger than it had been before each war. So Americans tended to view patriotism as constructive, not destructive. At the end of WWII, you had two consecutive generations of Americans who had spent the glory days of their youth in uniform, saluting the flag, and singing the national anthem.

The constructive point is well taken.

Maybe also the US had a very distinct profit/loss return from WW2. For the loss of, what, 300,000 (Stalin had that many Soviets shot - just loose change) the US got to see itself as a saviour sitting atop a huge moral mountain, and at the same time grew an empire and an ever burgeoning economy: war is good.

Perhaps for the US, and the British Empire before it, a necessary condition of imperialism is ongoing moral conviction, and irrational patriotism - which is what we witness now - is part of that.

It’s always interesting to hear the tone of a Presidential address, how it invites '‘Americans’ - used in every other sentence - to invest in whatever the moral journey might be on this occasion.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@up_the_junction

Perhaps for the US, and the British Empire before it, a necessary condition of imperialism is ongoing moral conviction, and irrational patriotism - which is what we witness now - is part of that.

It probably helps if the would-be empire’s home territory isn’t threatened. As soon as it is, a large chunk of the population will flip from imperialists to isolationists (or perhaps more accurately, the isolationists will be taken more seriously).

Just spitballing, of course. I’m sure counter-examples are numerous.

[BrainGlutton]

@Uniqueorn

Cite?

Fuck, Yeah!