I think it’s because it intrudes on others’ sense of personal space. Same thing with booming subwoofers on cars, cell phone ringing in inappropriate places, and so on. One can have some control over people who might physically intrude onto someone’s personal space, but it’s frustrating when the intrusion is sound, or smell, or something that is harder to control.
Anyhow, I sense a double standard in this thread. Loud (insert the appropriate minority group here) are merely more expressive, festive, outgoing, and social; all positive traits. Loud American tourists, mostly middle-class whites, are obnoxious, rude, and disrespectful. Same thing with the other examples given earlier for loud whites. Why is “loudness” to be tolerated and celebrated when it’s from a minority, but not from others?
Also, have anyone here noticed a difference in “loudness” between those from western Africa – where most US African-Americans have their roots – and those from other parts of the continent?
It’s always a bad thing to be a loud tourist. You’re just visiting another country. You’re supposed to be on your best behavior! Whereas if you were actually relocating to or growing up in that vicinity, all the obnoxious caucasianisms would magically become transformed into charming folk traits of genuine expatriate Euro-culture. Think about it: nobody complained about Tarzan. But if he were a tourist, his swinging around and yodeling would be rude as hell.
I just want to say that I am a huge fan of your posts on the dope, (not that you ever asked for any groupies) but I must protest this distinction between ‘blacks’ and the sub-groups you have mentioned.
It bothers me when black people try to separate themselves from ‘niggas’. I think we should be very careful not to allow anyone to section off any of our brothers and sisters as unacceptably ‘loud’ or anything else.
Can I ask why? It seems to me that *Askia ** is correct. There’s certain set of people, who are often called ghetto, who are louder than is considered polite in mainstream American society. Black people in different areas of the U.S. have different cultures, and there is a certain culture where it’s acceptable to be louder.
*not necessarily people *in * the ghetto, or people *from * the ghetto.
I don’t want to speak for Nzinga, but I object to calling these people “niggas”, which is what Askia has done. That rubs me the wrong way, too. It’s fine to draw a line between a subset and the whole. But describing them using that terminology is offensive to me. His usage actually undercuts his argument that “loudness” is not a defining property of all black people, since *nigger is a slur that has been directed as blacks irrespective of their “loudness” or otherwise.
*yeah, I know he said “nigga”. Don’t make a hill of beans to me since context is everything.
People here in Cameroon are not particularly loud. In fact, they are largely pretty soft spoken and I wish they’d speak up because my French and Fulfulde suck and it’s hard to understand them when they mumble.
There are, of course, a few people now and then that are exceptionally loud, usually when I am sick, tired, and trapped five to a seat on a rickety bus in the heat. I think these people occur in the same numers that they do in America.
I think this is a case of “the van is always on the corner”. You don’t notice the race of a bunch of drunken white frat boys or screech-rat voiced asian girls carousing around town at top volume. They are just “loud people”. Likewise, you don’t notice all the black people who arn’t being particularly loud. But everytime you see a black person being loud, you mentally file it away and pretty soon it seems like all black people are loud.
Ah, I can get behind the two of you if that’s what the problem was, but not if it’s that we shouldn’t criticize, or make any distinctions about certain subsets of black culture.
Leaving Madrid 2day. Assumed you weren’t around, otherwise it would have been nice to get together for a copa or three. Hung out with a real nice/smart ex-Doper too – Sailor, in case you might remember him.
And yeah, no kidding about los sanfermines…
Alucinaría el tío. I mostly remember the bota.
Was there once, many moons ago right after my HS graduation; actually ran the bulls…though I didn’t even see a hint of one I was so far ahead of the pack. Heck, I might have beaten the 100 mts world-record that day had someone been timing me.
To nuts a fiesta at my present age, but sure was a hell of a time back then.
Let me sheepishly admit that I do use the word ‘nigga’ with my peers, in slang speech and hip-hop.
But I don’t like when people consider parts of my fellow blacks in the ghetto as ‘loud ass niggas’. Would they say the same thing to a boisterous group of say, Italians, enjoying a loud and fun evening somewhere in ‘polite mainstream American society’? Would they call them, “loud ass niggas?” It seems the word is being used as a slur, not as a term of affection between peers. And I do take exception to that.
I didn’t call them niggas. Nigga is a self-descriptor. I’m just repeating it, differentiated spelling and all. It may not mean a hill of beans to **ywtf ** and others, but millions of black high school and college students, gangsta rap performers and prison inmates who DO call themselves niggas would disagree the diefferences are unimportant. It’s merely being politically correct when you call people by their preferred nomenclature.
I didn’t create the distinction between self-professed niggas and black folks who refuse to call themselves by that term, either. You only have to listen to the preachings of the black intelligentsia from Cornel West to Louis Gates Jr. to know it exists. Fake unity is at least as frivolous and wasteful as baseless animosity. I used to to think racial unity was deeply important, but without some other kind of cultural basis or unifying belief-system, racial unity tends to be only lip service and skin deep. If you must invest time and energy into some panafrican black creed, there are cultural education programs and networking and economic development systems that are more important than racial unity.
I did use the term “ghetto-ass niggas.” Maybe I shouldn’t have, but that was to differentiate between other types of niggas who ain’t ghetto: certain so-called black leaders, certain politicians, certain business people, certain unscrupulous media types. Not every no-good nigga fits the broke, violent and uneducated stereotype. Some of 'em are re-eeeal quiet about the foulness they do. Ghetto folks, like my neighbors, are decidedly loud. As a former teacher I have recollection of upset mothers screaming at the top of their lungs marching into the main office with several kids in tow. That kind of behavior might work on the manager at the laundromat, but in a public school it might get social services sicced on you.
I didn’t say these four different groups were unacceptably loud, at least not unacceptably loud to me. But hell; they are loud. Hell, I’M loud: I may have mentioned my tinnitis and hearing loss before. If I’m not watchful I can easily go up several volume levels.
So: excluding some black folks, be they niggas or not, on the basis of self-destructive or non-conforming behavior, isn’t the sin its made out to be. it happens all the time, often for very good reasons. There’s a certain kind of vague afrocentric unity I find hard to shake, but when people around you are engaged in detrimental, toxic or self destructive behavior you would do well to remember that all your skinfolks ain’t your kinfolks.
For those of you wondering where I stand on the black folks/nigga dichotomy: It’s probably safest to call me a nigga in relapse. If you saw my neighborhood this would not be such a surprise.
To **Nzinga, Seated ** :: nods head:: sup, nigga?)
It is always a slur to you. Not to me. I am an individual with my own mind and no one can define for me what is or is not ok for me to use with like minded people.
I understand the contextual meaning that Askia shared upthread, but I do think it is somewhat hazardous to use those words outside of a context where the differentiation isn’t understood. In other words, in mixed company, and especially around White folks. Because some people see it as a license to toss these words about. “When in Rome,” and that sort of thing. As I’ve said a million times on this board, I have been privy to being in groups where I am in the distinct minority - gay people, Jewish folks, Latinos, Native Americans, etc. - and there are snippets, phrases, and terms that people in these groups use when talking with one another that I instantly recognize as being in-group terms. I personally respect that those are words or characterizations that the members of those groups have reclaimed as their own for the purposes of empowerment, or even to make fun of themselves.
But (and I’m generalizing here) I have often heard (straight) White people use these terms outside of those contexts and offer up this explanation: “If gay/Black/Latino/Indian people use it, why can’t I?” (And just so I can’t be called out on this, I am certain there are people of color who use this rationalization as well.) I personally tire of having to educate people about respecting cultural boundaries, even if you are handed a ghetto/barrio/res/pink pass by some folks in the group, so I don’t go there. YMMV, of course.
So, I do support Nzinga’s choice to use the terms she uses in “family” settings. I don’t think I would be as willing to post what Askia posted, even with the explanation that followed. Maybe on a message board that was predominantly African-American, and where I knew people IRL. But that Askia’s his own man, see…
Sometimes, yeah-- if that racial unity is also that of oppressive, domineering, expansionist government(s). More often than not, if it’s just cultuiral or a mildly shared belief system it’s just ethnocentric or benignly xenophobic. Like… Jew culture, pre-Israel.
Plain ol’ tribal unity can lead to widespread genocide.
Nzinga, Seated. I was wondering if you were gonna leave me hanging…
