[QUOTE=lowbrass]
And needlessly repeat your point… :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
Well, I didn’t intend for it to come off that way, but since I appear to have come off poorly, once again, sorry. All the necessary apologies. You caught me on an error in my post, so I apologized and corrected it. Sorry if I did so in a way that irked you.
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
I cannot figure out of The Flying Dutchman is joking or not. With anybody else, I’d be totally sure it was a joke but the Dutchman’s has been known to post of things of which he admittedly knows nothing about with much authority.
Help me out Dutch, was that live or was it Memorex?
[/QUOTE]
Now Biggirl, I’m somewhat flattered to read that you remembered an obscure post of mine. Only thing is I don’t think I used the word “nothing”, perhaps little?
But I am worried that you perceive that I post with authority. I didn’t realize that. Perhaps I possess a facet of charisma. That’s interesting.
I’ll have to take some responsibility in the future for the awesome weight my words carry. Thankyou for the heads up.
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
Now Biggirl, I’m somewhat flattered to read that you remembered an obscure post of mine. Only thing is I don’t think I used the word “nothing”, perhaps little?
But I am worried that you perceive that I post with authority. I didn’t realize that. Perhaps I possess a facet of charisma. That’s interesting.
I’ll have to take some responsibility in the future for the awesome weight my words carry. Thankyou for the heads up.
[/QUOTE]
You’re welcome. So, were you serious or not?
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
You’re welcome. So, were you serious or not?
[/QUOTE]
All right, If I have to I will. I’m absolutely 100% not serious. Okay? You’re taking all the fun out of this.
[QUOTE=Miller]
No, it’s just the right-wind equivalent of Godwin’s Law. When a liberal can’t rebut an argument, but doesn’t have the intellectual integrity to admit it, he calls his opponent a facist. When a conservative can’t rebut an argument, but doesn’t have the intellectual integrity to admit it, he calls his opponent PC.
[/QUOTE]
Nevermind the fact that the term has a stable meaning. What’s sort of interesting about this, is that my use of the term PC was picked out of an argument where I explained my point. It was a minor quip that was the only part that was responded to.
The thread sort of felt to me like, “OH MY FUCKING GOD HE STEREOTYPED BLACK PEOPLE THAT’S THE FINAL COMPONENT NORTH KOREA NEEDED FOR AN ICBM! NOW LITTLE KIM WILL NUKE SAN FRANCISCO FOR SURE!!!”
Fucking fascists.
God, YOU PEOPLE are loud.
Sorry, I’m so late to this – hope it’s not too late to call VCO3 a fuckin’ retard.
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
Sorry, I’m so late to this – hope it’s not too late to call VCO3 a fuckin’ retard.
[/QUOTE]
From what I can tell, it seems to be never too late. However, I think the phrase you are looking for is “differently abled.” Oh wait, this is the pit. Carry on…
[QUOTE=liberty3701]
I’m confused as to what sort of answer the OP thought he would get when he asks a ‘why’ question about cultural differences. ‘Why are black people so loud?’ ‘To get back at whitey!’
I can, however, see why African Americans may be perceived as loud by non-African Americans. Many of the variables used in African American English, such as extensive overlap between speakers, braggadocio, falsetto, (supposedly) larger pitch range, combined with different cultural norms of when it’s okay to talk, such as during movies or call-and-response during a speech or sermon, could, collectively, lead a person who does not use these variables in their own dialect to perceive those who do as being loud. As to why African American English has these variables – it’s just how things are. And, as a disclaimer, not all African Americans necessarily use all or any of these variables, and some non-African Americans use them.
And because they differ from the culturally “unmarked” values of white America, these variables are taken as rude and loud and everything else negative under the sun. People will remember the loud black man at the movie theater, but forget the gaggle of loud white teenagers in the food court.
Did all that make sense?
[/QUOTE]
Out of so many good replies in this thread, I’ll continue in the spirit of this one. Way on yond back , post #100, I gave a humorous-in-anger retort, because of the OP’s “it’s a given” manner. For those who don’t know, that Third Leg Muscle theory was really advanced, back in the Stupid Day, as a reason why African Americans were so good at sports. That crap was diminishing, because, Oh Yep, They have that advantage, must be the reason They’re so good at that. It was the blanket, rather blind assertion of a whole group of people that pissed me off.
As brought up before, perhaps we can ask why being “loud” is such a problem. My own observance is that people in warmer climates tend to be more outgoing and vociferous. Cultural reasoning? If you don’t have to hunker down and live in close quarters for the cold months, with that personal duress, you can be more open.I’ve witnessed this in Scandinavia, where people go to great lenghths not to rock the boat with others.
Conversely, I’ve seen/heard that in my travels in Mexico, Central America, Italy, and in Af-Am culture in the South, an easier, more loose way of talking. Thanks Be, I’ve appreciated people being more outgoing than my own staid Euro-Am culture. After going to a Black church, here in the South, my eyes were opened, gladly, to a “Louder” version of Christian practice. People didn’t just sit and listen, and drone on with a hymn as required; Everyone participated, voices lifted up, sang, and shouted out in affirmation. As a White gal, I was just amazed, and heartened, by that church: it was so much more alive than anything I had experienced in my own culture. It was so much more a vocal celebration, and, yes, louder, and so wonderful to hear.
This experience led me, long roundabout, to Mississippi, where I documented people being rather musically loud about the conditions there. I learned a hell of a lot from old guys who spoke out in a nice code for the first part of this century, and, with time, allowed to be loud -er in the past twenty years. And now, without shitty cultural limitation, plenty of people want to just talk , without the Euro-Am constrictions of behaviour.
The question, then, VCO3 is why does" loud" really bother you? Is it the decible level, disturbance, and what’s said, or the the threat of different appearance for those who are being loud?
[QUOTE=elelle]
As brought up before, perhaps we can ask why being “loud” is such a problem. My own observance is that people in warmer climates tend to be more outgoing and vociferous. Cultural reasoning? If you don’t have to hunker down and live in close quarters for the cold months, with that personal duress, you can be more open.I’ve witnessed this in Scandinavia, where people go to great lenghths not to rock the boat with others.
[/QUOTE]
You must not know many Russians.
[QUOTE=Argent Towers]
You must not know many Russians.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t, at all, so give me a good clue. And, really, give a explaination of Russians being as vocal and open as , say, Italians, and La
My best friend growing up was Russian, and his parents and all of their friends were extremely boisterous. I’m not saying they’re all like that, but these Russians definitely spoke in a very vocal, singsong manner, both in Russian to each other and in English to me and other Americans. That’s the total of my Russian experience, so it’s not necessarily indicative of a larger picture, but these people that I remember were certainly not quiet, and certainly didn’t care about rocking the boat (they argued all the time.)
[QUOTE=mswas]
Nevermind the fact that the term has a stable meaning. What’s sort of interesting about this, is that my use of the term PC was picked out of an argument where I explained my point. It was a minor quip that was the only part that was responded to.
The thread sort of felt to me like, “OH MY FUCKING GOD HE STEREOTYPED BLACK PEOPLE THAT’S THE FINAL COMPONENT NORTH KOREA NEEDED FOR AN ICBM! NOW LITTLE KIM WILL NUKE SAN FRANCISCO FOR SURE!!!”
[/QUOTE]
Oh, well I’m so sorry I misjudged you. You’re right - that’s a completely cogent, level-headed argument. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
Sorry, I’m so late to this – hope it’s not too late to call VCO3 a fuckin’ retard.
[/QUOTE]
It’s never too late to do that. Good call, btw.
And in other news, racial harmony in Ohio, or:
[QUOTE=RedFury]
Haven’t bothered with the thread, frankly, don’t have the time to do so. But in direct answer to the OP, unless he considers us Spaniards, “black”, I can assure him, that on the whole, we can outshout any race and/or nationality in the world.
Don’t believe me? Easy, get on a flight to Madrid, go straight into a ‘copas’ bar/pub/tasca (easy enough task as there are about four per block throughout the whole city) and try to get a drink without shouting. Might as well turn into a camel if you don’t.
[/QUOTE]
Long time no see, Red. I was coming to invite the OP over for Sanfermines 
I think the OP is spot on.
I’ve seen three movies (The Last King of Scotland, Hotel Rawanda and Blood Diamond) in the last month that take place (mostly) in Africa and all the black native Africans are always yelling and shouting and stuff.
'Course, it’s hard to hear over all the shooting and bombings so maybe they’re just used to having to yell to hear over all the gunshots.
It must be Hollywood.
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
And in other news, racial harmony in Ohio, or:
PRAISE JESUS!!
[/QUOTE]
I knew this was going to be about the church in my area. :smack:
This has been a fun story around here. :rolleyes:
E.
I’d be lying if I didn’t admit I wanted to take a shot at this.
Here’s my shot:
My big problem with the OP’s topic as originally phrased is the blanket assumption that blacks are loud. Not that I have a problem with the term “blacks”-- it’s a heckava whole lot nicer than, say, pickaninny junglechunkers, and not so egregiously wrong as defying the double standard and actually using niggas or nappy headed hoes, but almost no one who IS black and raised inside the U.S. uses that word in that kind of a racial context, except in conrast to “whites” and in really bad poetry. Mostly too-curious white folks do that. This word generally raises a conversational red flag about a certain level of presumptiousness I think I’m likely to encounter: I think the term “microaggression” applies nicely. (Thanks to HH for that Word of The Day. Here’s a handful of “props” and a fistful of “dap.”)
I personally didn’t even have a big problem with the sociological ramifications of the question itself: is his observation even vaguely true, and if so, what might account for it? Where we run into a roadblock is **VCO3’s ** assertions of his observations as facts, and not even in the wink wink nudge way I have been known to do. No: if he wants to believe his racial opinions are gospel facts, he’s free to be so deluded. Lord knows I’ve deluded myself around here often enough and I wouldn’t dream of denying others the pleasure. Where he runs into problems are trying to get everyone else to subscribe to his newsletter. Foolish boy. Others have yet to find his facts intriguing.
The main reason I didn’t want to answer before is the problem with your main assumption, VC03: despite what you think, you’re not observing all blacks. You MIGHT be observing a pretty wide swath of African-Americans, but despite what black America may assert, we are not the Alpha and Omega of central black identity on this planet, as any South African, Nigerian or Afro-Caribbean will be happy to set you straight about. So if your hypothetical group of blacks are say Ghanaians (who i found to be pretty reserved) or Christian Ethiopians (likewise) then my own experience with these blacks will cause me to dismiss you out of hand. A slightly more appropiate question might be “Why are African-Americans so loud?”, which helps re-direct the question from broad racial assumptions to more reasonable cultural ones. Am I hairsplitting the differences between “blacks” and “African-Americans?” Duh! I’m Askia! Of course I am! Nuance and hairsplitting is all that separates man from the hairy, aboreal apes. Or getting my tactless racial and ethnic questions taken more seriously than yours.
I will admit, your question has had the happy effect of making me invert your fallacies and apply them to myself. I have been all-too guilty of saying “white folks do this” or “whites believe that” in my rationales and explanations, when in plain truth whenever I do that I do not describe the kind of white people I’m talking about enough to avoid overgeneralization and hurt feelings. Most of the time I think it’s understood I’m talking about mainstream middle-class white America, which is still a broad, broad group of astounding ethnic, religious, political and socioeconomic diversity. So broad that maybe it’s time I came up with another term, or at least became more discerning.
Black people, as a whole, by and large, are NOT especially loud. Ghetto-ass niggas, Preachers, female hood rats and black stand-up comedians are loud. Discuss.
[QUOTE=Askia]
Ghetto-ass niggas, Preachers, female hood rats and black stand-up comedians are loud. Discuss.
[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I seem to have misplaced my ten-foot pole…
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
Hmm, I seem to have misplaced my ten-foot pole…
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have that effect on folks, apparently.