I’ve seen this “If you hate something you must secretly like it” argument many times and have never made sense of it. BLM supporters aren’t secret white supremacists, feminists aren’t closeted MRAs, Democrats aren’t secret Trump fans, Yankees fans (since the OP is the OP) aren’t closeted Red Sox fans.
99% of the time, if someone says they hate something, they do hate it, plain and simple. They aren’t secret supporters of it.
It’s true that it seems uncannily common that the most outspokenly homophobic religious leaders turn out to be gay themselves. But this is a secondary phenomenon, surely the hatred of homosexuality must precede this behavior in their culture, otherwise why would the self-loathing and denial exist?
Tell me more about this particular ick factor.
You have never and will never hear it from this over 65 year old.
This would be a better discussion if all stopped categorizing people because of a single characteristic. That is, after all, what the OP is complaining about
Well, I mean, two guys having sex? That’s totally gay.
My guess is that some people, for whatever reason, are inclined to be disgusted by any kind fo sexual activity other than old fashioned heterosexual missionary sex. That group of people then read this into their religious text of choice. It might appear that Bible, Koran, Vedas, Talmud, Analects, whatever thumpers are opposed to same sex marriage based on this, when in reality the cause and the effect are reversed. They see what they want to see in their religious text because of their natural aversion. When a gay person is born into one of these cultures, they then naturally assume they are a sinner and try to stay in the closet.
Yeahbut, it’s not like they’re putting pineapple on pizza.
I hold no brief for the UK Conservative Party (never voted for them in my life), but it was their government who legislated for same sex marriage and some of their representatives are in SSMs.
And I don’t quite understand OP’s reference to Boris Johnson “screaming about marriage”. With his track record, just about any alert voter would know exactly how much notice to take of any pseudo-evangelistic moralising on the subject from him, i.e., none whatever.
On the whole, we don’t take kindly to holy-roller politics in this country, and those who aim for that particular niche of the market tend to get stuck there, if they’re not eventually tripped up by their own failings (motes and beams, and all that).
You aren’t exactly a Liberal, so…?
While the religious aspects are correct, I do think you also just need to go back to the root beliefs of conservatives. They are about preserving the way things are or going back to the good old past, rather than progressives who want to move forward to better times.
So then, throw in a history of homosexuality not being accepted, and it makes sense that the people who want to go back to the past would not accept it. To them, homosexuality (and, in particular, homosexual marriage) is this new thing that is taking us away from the good times of the past.
As for why they pick this nontraditional aspect in particular to harp on? Well, it’s one that doesn’t tend to affect THEM, so they don’t have to give anything up. It’s sexual, and we have a history of puritanical notions on sex. And, for gay men at least, it plays against their ideas of what masculinity is, and why men should be in charge. To them, gay men are men who are acting like women.
Even without the religion, there are just aspects of conservatism, mixed with our history, that make gay people, and particularly gay marriage, easy targets.
What? Same-sex marriage was introduced by a Conservative government and while there are surely still conservatives who don’t like it, Boris was an early supporter of it within the party.
Not all bible-thumpers are anti-SSM either. If every generality we use needs to be qualified to death we’ll never get anywhere. I think we’re all intelligent enough to infer the intent here.
You’re missing my point.
Yes, certain people are really really hung up on sex. But there’s an equally important, and I suspect larger number, cohort of people who don’t actually give a shit about gay sex but really want to virtue signal that this PC bullshit needs to go away.
I’m having a little trouble parsing this sentence…or perhaps it is failed haiku?
Folk talk.
Sorry, I have no love for Johnson, but this is the Dope so… Boris Johnson was backing calls for SSM back in 2012, as Mayor of London he appeared at pride rallies waving a rainbow flag and wearing a pink stetson. He may be many loathsome things, but a homophobic bigot isn’t one of them.
I think it’s also worth remembering that SSM in the UK was put into law by a Conservative led Government.
(PS, I am not a Tory, just fighting ignorance).
Two guys having sex with their wives? The wives being a transgender mtf, and a transgender ftm respectively. So gay.
Tell us more about “the conservative party” in South Africa.
I’d be interested to hear your answer, as you are clearly an expert.
I’ll chime in with some of my opinions and ideas based on having lived in South Africa for the last 20 years, but by all means, Yankees_1996_Champs, you let us all know the facts on the ground.
Indeed - this happened under Cameron. It was, however, an issue that divided the Conservatives in a way it did not divide most of the other parties (and of course the DUP remain undivided on the wrong side of the line). It was also a period where some anti-SSM Tories were jumping ship to UKIP (or threatening to). So while it is true that not all (or even a majority of) Conservatives opposed SSM, virtually all the people who opposed SSM in the UK were (small-c) conservative.
And while Boris has made plenty of homophobic remarks in his time, I don’t recall him opposing SSM in any notable fashion. And even if he had, the man who isn’t even sure how many children he has is not best placed to discuss the sanctity of marriage.
Sorry, what?