Why are the US conservatives so obsessed with SSM? I think the answer is rather simple: it’s yet another way for them to control what other people–people they do not like–do with their own lives.
My take is that being hung up on sex is a meme (in the original sense of a heritable element of culture) for a lot of religions. It is much easier for religious beliefs to spread from parent to child than any other mode of conversion, so religions that contain proscriptions that ensure the largest number of children being birthed outspread religions that don’t. So moral rules against non-child-producing sex (e.g. using birth control, homosexuality) and ensuring social control of the produced children (e.g. no sex before marriage) naturally show up in religions.
Religions that don’t have sex-related hang-ups have to rely on conversion of people other than your own children to spread, and that is much harder to do – basically impossible back when most people lived in rural communities with limited access to external ideas.
Are really though? I mean yeah, they’re against it. But I don’t think there’s any great push to reverse it like there is on abortion.
I believe many Conservatives are suppressing homosexual thoughts or acts when they over-compensate about homosexuality. Recall that the Conservative icons J. Edgar Hoover, McCarthy, Cohn and Schine were gay caballeros. So, while these clowns were sneaking Schine into the Senate steam baths, they were publicly claiming queers to be subversive. Another anti-homosexual conservative icon that just fell was the Boy Scouts. Oh yeah and the Catholic Church scandals.
So, I suspect that the loud Conservative protest against gay marriage has plenty of backing from closet homosexuals.
I’m going to have to second the “what” here. Because I can’t find a way to read this that isn’t homophobic, transphobic, or both.
Er, wtf is this supposed to mean?
In case the train of conversation is not clear, what I wrote was a sarcastic response to Velocity supposing that
Isamu’s reply - I really haven’t the faintest idea.
True, but I’m talking about the person who is going out of his way to condemn gay marriage. Indeed, there are politicians and religious leaders who have built their lives around hating gays, I think those people Are motivated by a toxic cocktail of suppressed desires, self loathing and fear.
I think it might be more like “If you hate something, you might actually hate something you wish you weren’t”, kind of a projection of your blind spots or uncertainties onto others.
This. To me, one of the more blatant characteristics of conservative “thought” is the constant demand to control other peoples behavior, while failing to apply the same standards to their behavior.
I think it is odd that he is asking people to speculate on the motives of others rather than seeking out the answers. There are plenty of places where arguments against gay “marriage” have been articulated, including here on the board. Those arguments were persuasive to voters as there were 28 successful referendums against it. However, since our rulers on the Supreme Court thought otherwise, the issue is now moot and there has not been any push to overturn it. Which shows that conservatives are not obsessed with it.
Has your mind been changed by the lack of negative effects of the legalization of gay marriage?
I don’t think “rulers” in the correct term here. The Constitution gives the Supreme Court the power to determine constitutional questions. Some fraction of the population disagrees with every ruling they issue. That’s inevitable.
I do agree that the conservatives generally have let this issue go. You seldom here any complaints about the current status quo on marriage equality. You almost have to wonder why the OP is trying to stir things up again.
I’m with this one. Conservative politicians know the hot-buttons of people in their party and they push those buttons to consolidate support, regardless of their own beliefs. It’s why they’re so often shown to be hypocrites about these issues…
Similarly, Roe v Wade settled a long time ago that abortion is to be freely available; that issue is now moot and there is no push to overturn it. Obviously, conservatives are not obsessed with that issue any more than they are with gay marriage (which one can type without scare quotes).
The institution of marriage seems to be in decline just as we who opposed gay “marriage” predicted it would be. The data I have seen show that society is bifurcating into those who believe in marriage and those who do not. This is fueling all kinds of problems.
Don’t confuse correlation with causation.
The abortion issue is not settled. Conservatives are always trying to restrict abortions. If our rulers on the supreme court would let democracy happen, it would already be illegal in many states.
The fact that the correlation is going in the direction we predicted, is obviously not proof positive, but it does mean there is no reason to change our minds.
The fact that the marriage rate is falling for the middle class (according to your cite) seems like something that would happen regardless of whether gay people can get married. In fact, gay people getting married should boost the numbers somewhat higher. If you have any evidence that giving the gay people this right reduces the urge for straight people to get married, I would be very interested in seeing that.
So why is gay marriage moot in a way that abortion is not for conservatives?