I notice that whenever the court system, both civil and criminal, gets into gear there are lots of warnings and rights and lawyers and stuff and it takes time, lots of time, to go through the process.
But the everyday person doesn’t really get involved in civil litigation or criminal charges. Instead they get traffic and parking tickets and that sort of thing.
But these everyday things are very difficult to contest effectively, so I heard, since most people who work don’t want to lose day’s salary to get a smaller amount of a ticket refunded.
Ok so how did things get this way? Is it just the natural state of affairs, or it is an aberration?
You actually can request a jury trial even for traffic infractions, I believe. But if you’re guilty you have to pay crazy high court costs. IANAL though so I might be mistaken.
Regardless, this seems like an obvious thing. The reason people don’t take off time from work, hire lawyers, etc., to fight minor infractions is that it isn’t worth it.
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But the everyday person doesn’t really get involved in civil litigation or criminal charges.
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Well, that’s because when the “everyday person” gets involved in civil litigation or criminal charges, he or she–I guess in your lexicon–is no longer an “everyday person.” I don’t see where the confusion is coming from.
While I was visiting my old town one Sunday morning, I parked in the only shaded parking slot in a downtown block, and since the shops were all closed, my car was the only car parked on that block. After returning from the park, I noticed a parking ticket because there was a no parking sign in the shade that I hadn’t noticed.
I decided to try getting the ticket dismissed or reduced the next day. I had to wait in the courtroom for 3 hours listening to other cases including a telecast criminal case with the defendant in handcuffs and prison duds speaking before a camera. Then my ticket was reduced in half after less than a minute of pleading. It seemed a complete waste of time.
I guess the OP is thinking that because something like this involved only a parking ticket, you should have been able to accomplish what you did in some easier way.
But due process takes time whether it’s a big offense or a little one. The punishment is smaller because it’s not such a serious thing, and by the same token, people are more likely to take a chance by committing the offense and hoping they can get away with it, so there are many more cases to be heard.
What the OP may not have completely considered is the ratio of criminal cases that actually go to trial to those that take a guilty plea (or civil cases that settle). If people do that to a lessor degree than those who pay their parking ticket without going to court, it’s simply because of what’s at stake, and the costs. Paying your parking fine is essentially taking a guilty plea, but the ramifications aren’t so serious, so of course people aren’t going to take the time and pay the expenses to contest it. That would be the “natural state of affairs” for people acting in their best interests–hardly an aberration.
Perhaps but there is a argument that because we are human we can and will make mistakes just because we are human and that makes the law impossible to humanly obey all the time and therefore unjust to force humans to comply to. These are the offenses that the OP is referring to. Small stuff that the fine is set that it is not worth it for a person to set forth a defense yet large enough to be a large income stream for the state.
I occasionally hear it’s easier to beat a murder rap than a parking ticket, and I think in some ways that’s true. There’s a hell of a lot more at stake with murder – the courts are looking for a strong case from the prosecution and the defense is likely to be vigorous. Sometimes the evidence for murder is less than compelling, whereas with traffic tickets it’s usually something that a cop observed first hand, offering a highly credible witness with clear and simple evidence. So with murder the defendant is highly motivated to contest the charge and often has a reasonable chance of defeating it, with the little stuff there’s less to lose and significantly less chance of winning.
I think one thing people are missing is that traffic/parking violations are a big source of revenue for most districts. It’s in the municipality’s best interest to make fighting it as inconvenient as possible.
That said, there is a difference between traffic/parking infractions and other crimes: The process is automated with the former. If you raise no objection, then you’re admitting guilt. Contrast with pretty much any other crime, where you need to be tried in a court of law in order to be found guilty.
I’d say 99% of the people who go to traffic court are not there to contest the validity of the ticket. They are there to literally throw themselves on the mercy of the court because the most recent ticket will mean a suspended license, loss of insurance, or some other tragic outcome. They are there to beg.
My husband showed up with pictures of the area where he received his ticket, showing an ambiguity of the traffic signage. The judge said he was the first person to bring in actual EVIDENCE to contest a ticket.
Was he speeding? Yes, of course. He drove the same route every day, on his way to work. But because he actually put some thought process into contesting the ticket, the judge reduced the fine.
I conclude the court system is overwhelmed with the piddly stuff because people keep trying to get away with traffic violations, and when they get caught, they cry.
~VOW
Sometimes these minor infractions are not so minor. I have a commercial license and if I were to be accused of any moving violation even in my own vehicle I have to inform my employer and they have every right to re-evaluate my employment. Hefty consequences for allegedly turning without signalling or whatnot.
I can verify this. About 20 years ago I worked on an upgrade to the Brooklyn-Queens DA computer system. If I had committed murder I would have been easily able to clear out all the records. But the parking violations data was locked down and inaccessible.
Of course the reason is that parking violations are a major source of revenue in NYC, while prosecution of murders is just a drain on the economy.
Occasionally I have a client that needs to fight a ticket for business reasons, and in California you can request a jury trial, but you will not be given a jury trial. You can also request a judge, not a traffic commissioner, but you will not be given a real judge. You can, however, object to evidence. So if it is something other than speeding, etc., such as having the right papers, the officer is not likely to have correctly certified copies.