Give me my day in court, or go fuck yourselves (long)

The BBQ Pit
1

A little background…

In 2001, I got a speeding ticket in December, right around the holidays. It was in Nassau County, Long Island. I won’t get into the details of the alleged incident, other than to say that my Dad was in the car with me and he agrees with me that the cop who pulled me over was amazingly full of shit.

Upon my receipt of said ticket, I stuck it in my wallet and didn’t look at the damned thing until after the holidays were over. After all, I had things to worry about other than speeding tickets. I figured I would plead not guilty through the mail and wait to hear back from the Nassau County Traffic Violations Bureau or whatever half-assed, bloated bureaucracy handles such things. No such luck.

Looking at my ticket, I discover that if I wanted to plead not guilty by mail, I had to do so within 48 hours of receipt of the ticket. Of course, I could plead guilty by mail whenever the fuck I wanted to, but a not guilty plea evidently requires IMMEDIATE FUCKING ACTION. It being several days after the 48-hour deadline, if I wanted to plead not guilty at that point, I had to make a personal appearance on the ticket’s return date.

The return date was in the middle of February. I figured I could take a day off work, go to traffic court, plead my case and maybe get charges dismissed. No such luck.

When I arrived at traffic court at 9AM, there was a huge line out the door and down the block. I stood in line for over an hour before I even approached the front of the building, at which point I noticed a “No Cell Phones” sign on the door. I reached into my pocket and turned my phone off so it wouldn’t ring. A woman standing inside the vestibule of the building evidently saw me do this, because when I got to the front of the line, she told the security personnel that I had a phone on me. The security droids wouldn’t let me in the building with my phone, so I had to walk back to my car several blocks away, lock my phone in the glove compartment, and go stand in line all over again.

When I finally got to the front of this godawful line about two hours later, it was past noon. I gave a clerk my ticket with the “Not Guilty” box checked on it. She says, “Thank you. You’ll hear from us in 8-12 months.”

WHAT? Eight to twelve MONTHS? How about I plead my case now, seeing as how I’ve already taken a day off work? Once again, no such luck.

Twelve months later, I’ve heard precisely DICK from Nassau County, and I begin to think that some pindick bureaucrat lost my ticket somehow. I wish.

This past weekend, I got something in the mail from Nassau County, more than 15 fucking months after the fact. They’re demanding that I come in for a “conference.” Presumably, this is so I can talk to a prosecutor and he can find out how serious I am about letting this go to a trial. If I don’t attend this “conference,” my license will be suspended.

I don’t want a conference. I want my fucking trial. Now. I’m looking forward to embarrassing this asshole cop in court. I want to get this thing over with and be on my way.

I have to take a day off work to simply enter my plea. I’ll have to take a day off work to go to the conference. God knows how many days I’ll have to take off before this fucking thing is over with…

Since when can a traffic court threaten to suspend my license if I don’t attend a conference? I can see if I didn’t show up for my trial or if I didn’t meet the deadline for entering my plea, but can they suspend my license for refusing to show up to negotiate with a prosecutor? What else can they make me do? “Dear THespos, please cram the enclosed waffle iron up your ass and send us a photograph, or we will suspend your license…”

I can’t see how a fucking speeding ticket can result in my having to take several days away from work, unless it’s some fucked-up plot to encourage me to simply plead guilty, pay ridiculous fines and have my insurance rates skyrocket. What the fuck happened to a right to a speedy trial? Do these fucknuts think the cop is going to even REMEMBER pulling me over a year and a half after the fact? If I ask him questions about the incident, is he going to be able to remember details? I don’t think so.

It’s a FUCKING SPEEDING TICKET! I didn’t kill anyone. I didn’t violate anybody’s rights. So why is this so drawn out? What happens if you get caught lifting a Snickers bar from a Nassau County 7-Eleven? Do they throw you in Camp X-Ray?

Now I know why those shitheads on America’s Most Fucked-Up Police Chases don’t stop for the cops. They’re probably running low on paid sick days.

2

It seems to me from reading your story and hearing countless others is that the system is set up in such a way as to make paying the ticket cheaper than actually fighting it.

3

Someone give THespos a kewpie doll for understanding how the traffic enforcement division meets its budget each year.

From what I’ve seen in court, chances are that even if you go to trial, the COP won’t get the day off work to testify.

4

IIRC, when a cop shows up to testify, he’s being paid.

[sub]Unless he’s not testifying as a cop, or his on trial hisself[/sub]

5

Its called revenue enhancement.

If there is a lesson to be learned, it might be - READ YOUR FUCKING TICKET WHEN YOU GET IT!

Failing that, maybe try not speeding.

6

Amen Dinsdale, I know what you mean

7

Did you not read the first paragraph of the OP when he said the cop was full of shit?

8

Jd - Didn’t realize that calling a ticket-giving cop full of shit necessarily implied that one was adhering to the speed limit.

9

I got caught in a similar situation with a parking ticket a few years ago. We own a van but I don’t drive and my wife (who was a driver) is now legally blind; we haven’t gotten rid of the van yet because we occasionally need it for trips and shopping. At the time of the incident in question we had someone staying with us who we allowed to use the van in exchange for helping around the house.

One day I got a notice in the mail that my request for dismissal of a parking ticket had been denied. The information on the parking ticket shows that it had been issued at our home address for parking on a street-cleaning day after 9am. I asked my wife and Danny if they knew anything about this, and found out that a few months ago when Danny had gone out to move the van on sweeping day there had been a ticket on it. According to him it had been well before nine o’clock, but the time on the ticket was 9:15. I don’t remember all the details (whether the cop was still around etc) but Danny said he had, as instructed on the ticket, sent it in with a letter of explanation and didn’t bother to tell me about it because he figured that would be the end of it. Of course, the city took the position that a police officer would never make a mistake when issuing a ticket, and therefore I had to pay the fine. I could, of course, request a hearing to appeal this decision; this required a (non-refundable) filing fee of (IIRC) $150.00, which was significantly more than the cost of the ticket. :frowning:

10

I can’t think of another reason that the op and his father would think he’s full of shit. Unless maybe he was only slightly speeding and the cop exagerated the amount. Maybe he sped up to enter traffic or get out of the way of anther motorist and the cop said that he’s been following him doing that speed for miles. Either way, it was definately my impression that he was saying that the cop trumped up the charges.

And to take a superior position like you did is hypocritical. As if you’ve never passed the speed limit in your life.

11

I seem to recall that in recent years significant changes were made with regards to Chicago traffic court, making wither the contesting of tickets or the appeal of convictions much more costly and cumbersome. Maybe that concerned the appeal of parking tix.

Yet another reason I’m glad I don’t do much driving in the city.

12

Hey Jd - congrats on your ability to divine the intention behind ambiguous phrasings.

As far as my driving habits and/or hypocrisy are concerned, I suspect it is an unusual instance in which I am driving at or below the speed limit. If I were stopped for speeding or any other of my frequent and habitual traffic transgressions, I would do my utmost to get out of any penalty and then, if all failed, figure out my options and probably pay the fine as I value my time pretty highly.

What I would NOT do is stick the ticket in my wallet unread, simply because it was “the holiday season.” Anyone saying same in court should be hit with an additional stupidity fine. Same goes for any numbnut defending such moronic behavior.

By accusing me of taking a superior position, are you saying I present the more persuasive of competing views? Or is that Philadelphese for copping a superior 'tude? If the latter - heck, I can’t help coming across as superior. I am, you know.

Of course, given this demonstration of your mental abilities, I suspect you encounter that quite a bit.

13

Hey Dinsdale, I wasn’t using this as an excuse. I was simply pointing out that I thought it was asinine that the deadline for a not guilty plea was 48 hours while the deadline for guilty pleas was significantly longer. 48 hours doesn’t seem a little ridiculous to you?

Also, I want to clarify my statement in the OP about the cop being full of shit. This officer claims I passed him in the middle lane doing 85 MPH. Despite this, he wrote the ticket for 75 MPH, but that’s not the significant part. The significant part was that I HADN’T BEEN IN THE MIDDLE LANE. I was in the HOV lane. I don’t know whether the officer was mistaken or mixed me up with another car or what - I can’t speak for him, obviously.

14

Oddly enough, I know something about Nassau County traffic court. Keep in mind that this is a few years old and entirely unofficial.

What I’ve heard is that when you go for a conference, you meet with the prosecutor (also known as the plea bargain guy). He will usually tell you what offense you can plead guilty to, how many points it is, etc. These often have no relationship to what you’ve been charged with (e.g. a speeding 10 miles over could be pleaded down to a broken taillight). I guess you can negotiate with him a bit, but he usually has a pretty fixed idea of what you can plead to. Once you plead, you’re done.

If you want your actual day in court, you’ll have to come back a bunch more times. They’ll set a date, the officer won’t show up, so it’ll be adjourned to another date. Repeat several times until eventually the officer shows up or they decide they’ve had enough of you and throw the ticket out. Unfortunately, that’s the way they work it in Nassau County.

This is all second-hand information, and I am not your lawyer and don’t really know what I’m talking about in this area. Proceed with caution. Not for internal use. Not responsible for checked items. Watch your hat and coat.

15

Well, sure, I don’t find I have to do all that many things in life - either personal or professional - with less than a 2-day turn-around. But just because I have a certain grace period for paying certain bills, or I know certain actions at work trigger various timetables, I don’t assume that I will have any particular amounts of time when situations arise with which I have no experience.

Put it this way - how long did it take you to read the entirety of the ticket when you finally did - including the fine print. Five minutes? 10? Then how long to decide whether or not you wanted to contest it? Maybe another 5-10? How long to check a box, find a stamp, and ensure this would get in a mailbox?

And what all other tremendously important things were going on “during the holiday season” that you viewed potentially being subject to legal prosecution as a relatively minor matter that could simply be put off.

I’d say 48 hours was plenty of time. Not overly generous but, really, why did nou NEED more?

Also, you have yet to contend that you were not speeding - whatever lane you were in and whether it was by a little or a lot. When you break the rules, you increase the chances that you will become subject to rules of another’s making, however unreasonable and arbitrary they may appear to you.

16

Move for a dismissal of the ticket as a delay of fifteen months is a violation of your Sixth Amendment right to a speedy trial. If they refuse, demand a jury trial. Make it as expensive as possible for the court to pursue it (assuming that they can’t stick you with court costs if you lose).

IANAL etc.

17

I dunno, some of us might actually want to weigh the alternatives. The apparently ridiculous time and expense to deal with the not guilty plea vs. the expense of the guilty plea in both fines and increased insurance. Of course, you would need mere seconds to decide, us mortals might want to consult with those more knowledgable in the field.

A better question is why does Nassau County NEED the plea in 48hrs when it takes them 15mo to process it? The obvious answer is that they don’t, and they’re just making it hard on the ticketee to encourage guilty pleas.

18

Billdo, while IANAL nor do I live anywhere near Nassau County, this doesn’t seem right to me. My experiences with the courts in my area of the US is that if the cop doesn’t show, the case is dismissed. This is based on the due process part of the Constitution - something about the right to confront your accuser. But it wouldn’t surprise me if different states had different laws about this.

19

Were you speeding or not? If the officer said you were doing 85 and you were, and he wrote the ticket for 75, then it sounds like he was cutting you a fucking break. If he wrote it for as fast as you were going, then quit your bitchin and deal. This isn’t a case where the officer was in a speed trap, itchin’ to write tickets. YOU FUCKING PASSED HIM. That kinda grabs an officer’s attention. Unless your going to change your story and tell us you were going the speed limit and this officer couldn’t possibly find anyone else to ticket and picked on you because…well, I’ll let you fill in the blank.

What Dinsdale said. In addition, nobody took your right to plead not guilty away, you only had to come to court to do it.

You couldn’t plead your case that day because the complaining witness, the officer, wasn’t there. I realize your time is much more important than the officers, but he’s not going to show up on the plea date for every single ticket he writes.

I’m not sure I buy this. Please elaborate, because I’ve never heard that they can suspend a driver’s license because you refused to attempt to plea bargain with the prosecutor.

You and the hundreds of thousands of other people like you. These delays aren’t there to piss you off, but rather because of the sheer volume of tickets.

You didn’t “have to” if you had responded by mail

Hey, you may actually have a point to this one. I’ve never heard of this practice, or that the refusal to negotiate a plea with a prosecutor will end in your license suspension. I’d be interested if there is a statute allowing this. Check your paperwork and let me know.

Volume, Volume Volume!!! There are tons of tickets issued, and not much resources allotted to deal with them. They’re wasting their time with murderers and rapists. Go figure.

On traffic tickets you have to file a paper to get a speedy trial or a jury trial. If you had filed it, it’s possible you would have had it dealt with earlier.

Then it would appear the delay you are bitching about is working in your favor.

All that being said, it is a pain in the ass to defend yourself from a ticket. A vast majority of the reason for that is the sheer volume of tickets that seem to be issued to so many not guilty people. But there is part of the system that looks to make it more difficult to be found guilty. But it isn’t because of the “asshole cop.”

20

I doubt you would win the speedy trial dismissal, most States require you to demand a speedy trial for moving violations. However, it just may work, who knows. And just so you know, if you demand a jury trial, you won’t be making it more expensive for the court (sunk costs and all), but you will probably piss of the prosecutor and judge. If your choice is whether you could plead down to a non-moving violation at the conference or demand a jury trial, you might want to weigh the pros and cons.

If the officer doesn’t show for the first trial, the State will move to continue the case to another date for trial. Then it is totally dependant upon the judge hearing the case whether to grant it or not. Most traffic judges I have been in front of (going back quite a few years here) in small counties will grant one continuance, then that’s it. In the big cities, however, many judges will deny the continuance (cuts down on their load) unless the prosecutor has a damn good reason. Then the prosecutor moves to dismiss the ticket. As an aside, that’s the reason for the dismissal, not a violation of due process. If the continuance is not granted the State has no witness, and dismisses the ticket.