To be clear, he seems to be arguing that we should happily let people starve, not that we should tolerate rape. Seems. I can’t be certain.
Well, food is needed for survival. Sex is not.
Granted, it has been demonstrated that loneliness and being starved of intimacy can have serious health effects, but that’s not as dire as death.
Of course prostitution sex is not enough. No one “cool” brags about banging prostitutes. Indeed, no one wants to be known as the kind of guy who has to get sex from prostitutes. These guys want to be in a relationship with a real girlfriend. They don’t want a rent-a-friend.
This is why I hate that the discussion is always about virginity. These guys wouldn’t be filled with rage if they had girlfriends who wanted to wait until marriage before having sex. Sexual frustration, yes. But not rage.
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Do we really know this, though? We’re talking about self-identified incels, not your standard persistently single guy.
While it’s tempting to think that a relationship is all these cats need to get their minds right, that presumes that a relationship is the main thing lacking in their lives. It’s very likely that is not the case. Some may be single because the deck is stacked against them, and others (like Elliot Rodgers) are single because they are sociopaths.
Some high-ranking men can date multiple women at the same time.
FWIW, this phenomenon is well known in nature. Check out the Wikipedia article on the behavior of the bower bird, for instance:
I don’t think most of these guys are sociopaths. I do not even know that this best describes Elliot Rodgers.
For whatever reason, these people feel cheated out of a “normal” life. Sex is a feature of normal life but it is not a “showy” one. But a girlfriend is a status symbol. Especially when she is hot.
I mean, we can speculate that these guys are so fucked up that they would be angry even if they had unlimited women, fame, and fortune. But to me, that implies that these guys do not actually have unmet needs and desires and that they magically exist outside of their environments. I do not think that is fair.
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We acknowledge unfairness in employment, and other things, but we also encourage people to keep trying in spite of it. Work harder, go back to school and get a degree, that sort of thing. “There’s someone for everyone” usually strikes me the same way; a message to keep trying. Unfair or not, I’m not sure there is a better option. If that’s missing from your life, I’m not sure what else could take it’s place.
Also, it’s a lot easier to categorize and keep score with something like employment. Do as good a job as someone else and get passed over for promotion, that’s unfair. But no one can say who’s a better or worse boyfriend (or girlfriend). It’s so different for every individual. I’m not competing with other men for the one perfect woman, I’m trying to find one that I’m perfect with.
I think the complaint is that men who express frustration with their romantic endeavors are considered to be toxic, self-entitled assholes, and women who do it become a TV series with Sarah Jessica Parker.
I’m not really sure how much that enters into it. In my case, I’m not looking for a status symbol. If I want to date someone, I don’t care that anyone else thinks she’s hot or not. I care about how we’d be together and how we’d make each other feel.
Well, you should take that up with the incels, who are, after all, the subject of the thread, and whose beef is they never have sex.
But you are not an Incel, right? Just being unhappily single does not make an Incel. That is who I am talking about.
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That is what they say. But I am not obligated to believe them. After all, they are a bunch of whiny sociopathic assholes, right? What the fuck do they know about anything?
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I think it’s fair to say Rodgers had more going on than just a lack of a girlfriend. If not sociopathy, some other thing. The things he said in his manifesto scream distorted thinking along the lines of mental illness.
Once you have on your hands a guy angry enough to plow cars into people and categorize all of humanity into Stacies and Chads, it’s reasonable to think their unmet needs are deeper than what they think they need. To reduce it all the not having a girlfriend makes as much as sense as me assuming the opposite, which is that having girlfriend makes you a good, sane person.
I dunno, I just think we have to be careful with any speculation.
No, I’m not; but plenty of other people in this thread are making assumptions about what Incels believe, thought I’d join in.
Indeed, ISTM that by a very rough estimate, how many adult men and women in North America qualify as “incels”? A lot, a sh*tload, tons? Some big big number. Of those, how many have violently killed a number of people because of their inability to deal with their fate? 2, that we know of.
So, again ISTM that discussing incels is valid and interesting, in and of itself. But conflating incels with the 2 who did the violent killing? It really is not meaningful. They did something crazy because they were crazy - it could just as easily been that they thought they were getting signals from the nearby cell towers as that they happened to be incels and used that as a motivation for their behavior.
I’d never heard or seen the term before running into this thread. I’m familiar with the damage and derp of the Red Pill set, but couldn’t tell you anything about these folks, not even what the fuck ‘incel’ means.
you with the face, you are speculating that all of these guys are sociopaths. That is kind of crazy to me.
All I am saying is that they have unmet needs–whether they be emotional (likely), sexual, status (almost certainly), or all of the above and then some. Is that really a big leap?
I think the assertion that they are all fucktard psychos is more of a stretch than the one I am making. I don’t think gangsta thugs are born that way, even if they do display sociopathic behavior. I do not think human behavior is that simple.
Lest I be misunderstood, I am not talking about people exactly like Elliot Rodgers. I am talking about people who have taken a few sips of the hateraide koolaide, but they haven’t drunk the whole glass and likely never will. I am not ready to throw all of these people into the hopeless “sociopath” category.
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Look, its human nature to be jealous of and be angry when you see all the people around you getting something (anything) that you can’t get.
The problem here is getting angry about it and sharing that anger with other people like you and letting that fester and make you even more angry about not having the things you want to have. That just breeds stupid ideas and excuses for why you can’t.
Then once you cross that “It’s not me, it’s everyone else” line, you’re done for.
Ok, but chiming in what you personally want is making the discussion a little confusing. I don’t think unhappily single people want the same thing that the stereotypical Incel wants. The average poster on the Forever Alone subreddit is lonely and clearly is longing for companionship as well as sex. The average Incel posting on an Incel forum is not posting about companionship. They are posting about killing Chads and Stacies and making them “pay”. To me, that speaks to a desire for status and status symbols and power in addition to the other things. Horniness and loneliness don’t make people murderous.
That said, I am extermely open to the idea that these guys are hiding their loneliness through macho bravado. The idea that they are all sociopaths seems way too pat to me. But surely there is something different about a guy who self-identifies as an Incel versus one who identifies as a Forever Aloner. I am not thinking the overlap is all that great. Maybe the average Incel knows he isn’t capable of killing anyone, but he just enjoys the thrill of the idea. Maybe the rhetoric makes him feel powerful (like carrying a gun except with words). I am curious what you think is going on.
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An incel is not just a person who can’t get laid. Incels are a community. A creepy, woman-hating community.
Like you guys! :o
As many of you know, I am currently involuntarily celibate, and was for the last twenty years of my marriage. I was never, as an adult, shamed for all of those things. at least that I heard, but I didn’t need others to shame me because I had myself. Even when I was married, a father, and moderately successful there was a voice digging at me, calling me a loser. Now I am widowed, unemployed, unable to drive for a few more months, living in my own basement, a big, fat, half-crippled fuck and I can stand up (slowly) and call the InCels the real losers because I chose an internet community that won’t feed and reinforce my negative thoughts.
To let others know how lame it is, I bowed out of it pages ago. 