[Backseat driver hat on]
I don’t think anybody who posted to this thread thought you were, Llardy. Nickrz really jumped the gun moving this thread to GD. I think he saw the words “Jews” and “Persecuted” and his kneejerk kicked it out of GQ. (which is where it belongs, IMO). His premature action has now almost guarenteed that his prediction will be fulfilled.
[Backseat driver hat off]
The Jews have in many places been an identifiable, often sizable, minority of nonconformists. Well, they conformed to each other, but not the surrounding culture. They resisted intermarriage, land ownership even when it would have been possible, and adopting the local culture (at least the religious part of it, which has often been central). You know - refusing to fit in. To be one of us. Troublemakers. To top it off, they have often - though by no means always - managed to become relatively well off financially as a group.
Mix all that together with the people around them having the normal allotment of the pettiness that human nature seems subject to, and it would be surprising if they had NOT been the object of bigotry.
[sar]Oh yeah, and the banking conspiracy. Don’t forget the banking conspiracy.[/sar]
How about because they’re there? They’re an easily identifiable, foreign group. Or at least they used to be easy to identify, and orthodox Jews still are.
Armenians had the same problem, but Jews could be found anywhere in Europe & Asia Minor so more people are familiar with their problems. Like I said before, nothing brings people together like a common hatred.
I think the reason is more spiritual.
The Jews are STILL Gods choosen people. He has expanded that to include any Christians as well, but the Jews are the first born of many. Therefore, they are hated by Satan (not not you Satan, the real one)and his minions. They are constantly trying to destroy that which God prizes and use all thier means to do so. In this day and age Satan has a lot of resources to pull from…
Heaven…One to beam up!
Anyone else find this statement rather amusing?
~Kyla
“Anger is what makes America great.”
Aren’t we ALL God’s children, Jew, Christian, Muslim, black, white, yellow, brown, short, tall? Didn’t God choose us all?Aren’t we ALL the chosen people?
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
Nickrz
Were you equally apprehensive that the “Who is Jesus’ Real Biological Father” thread might attract Christian bashers and their ilk? Didn’t you realize that suggestions of a Roman soldier being the father of Jesus relegates Mary to whore status and makes Jesus NOT of the line of David, false accusations that are the cornerstone of Christian bashers? Is this selective concern held by all moderators?
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
Excellent point, John John. Maybe one of the reasons Jews are persecuted is that they have a double standard for what is appropriate on SDMB’s.
You appear to be out of line, mipsman. The moderator John John quoted is not, to my knowledge, either religiously or culturally Jewish.
While I do not necessarily agree with Nickrz’s decision to move this thread, it should be noted that he left the thread in GQ for as long as the discussion concerned itself with perceived facts.
He moved it only after KM2 posted his cryptic, and apparently inflammatory, remarks. Similary, the thread on the paternity of Jesus was moved to Great Debates despite the fact that it did not pick up any overt irreverence.
I see no evidence of personal bias in Nickrz’s decision. I see no reason why you or John John should be attempting to insert the question of bias (in any direction) to this thread.
Tom~
The religious traditions of Judaism include scholarship. An educated man is a successful man. People who are not successful are always looking for someone to blame for their failures. Thus, Jews are the victims of the stupid grunts, the red necks, the beer-hall trash; the failures of each & every society they have been a part of.
But their tradition of education has benefitted each society they have been a part of. We have rewarded this very special culture poorly indeed.
With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince. With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D, and you still have the frog you started with.
tomndeb, you seem to do a lot of analysis of other peoples’ motivations. Please advise me on the SDMB procedure for “take it outside, fellows.”
That’s easy. You want to say nasty things about someone, open a thread in the BBQ Pit excoriating them.
I’m not sure where I have indicated either knowledge of or interest in anyone’s motives. John John raised a question regarding Nickerz’s motives. Your post seemed to express a pretty clear link between Nickrz moving the thread and there being some sort of double standard favoring Jews on this MB. Since you provided no evidence for your conclusion, I suggested that your remark was inappropriate. Since John John’s question is not supported by the facts of how the threads were moved to GD*, I have questioned why either of you are raising the issue. If you have evidence, you can always provide it, now (although it would have been more appropriate during your initial post).
*(Specifically, both posts originated in GQ. Each was posted to in fairly polite fashion. Nickerz moved the thread on Jesus’s biological father to GD before any polemics were launched and while the discussion was quite polite. Nickerz moved this thread after KM2 posted his attempted insult. The evidence, then, is that a thread potentially insulting to Christians was thrown out of GQ while the expressions remained polite while a thread that was potentially insulting to Jews was moved only after an insult was hurled. Since your charges seem to be that moving this thread to GD “favored” Jews, I fail to see how your evidence supports your charge.)
Tom~
I’ve wondered the same thing, mipsman, about why Tom inserts himself into other threads to explain what OTHER PEOPLE MEANT AND BOARD PROCEDURE etc. Under his name it says “member,” not moderator, or administrator, which leads me to conclude that Tom knows as much, or as little, as we do about other people’s motivation, meaning, intent and board procedure. I think tom is sucking around for a job on the boards. Good luck, tom.
Tom says that none of our “QUESTIONS ARE SUPPORT BY FACT.” Tom, by defintion questions need NOT be supported by fact, ANSWERS SHOULD BE. I would also like to know why a question about Judaism receives such wrathful responses and accusations, while the minutest detail about Christianity is discussed, ad nauseum?
Tom, mipsman ASKED a question, a fair one, IT IS ONLY OUT OF LINE IN YOUR IMAGINATION. Stop distorting things, Thomas.
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
Interesting list, but you have forgotten one reason often given. I’ll bet if you took this question to a poll of anti-semites, the most popular answer would be:
(Here I would like to insert John Corrado’s disclaimer or caveat or whatever you choose to call it).
“Because they allow it to happen.”
Walk into a bar one night, find someone who holds this opinion, and try to argue it. It’s damn near impossible. I’m not saying it’s true, it’s just one of those things that inebriates know how to justify through inebriated logic. If you take up the issue with, for instance, some members of my extended family, you will inevitably hear the quesion “What would have happened if Hitler would have went into Ireland and tried to herd 6 million Catholics into work camps? And why do you think he didn’t?”
(Here I’d like to repeat the disclaimer/caveat, just to remind everyone that I don’t actually subscribe to this belief).
But, the argument can be made that the fact that the Jews have “successfully” been persecuted again and again, even while enjoying very large numbers and, as mentioned before, vast financial resources, is what made them such a prime target.
Note that I said “made,” because they seem to be sticking up for themselves now that they have their own nation (and their own weapons of mass destruction).
The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.
John John said:
But what mipsman actually posted was:
I fail to see any question in that; only a statement (and a statement based on a false premise to boot).
John John, I didn’t read the other thread you complained about, so I cannot comment on the points you raised about possible anti-Christian bias. Also, I can understand your resentment at someone else attempting to explain your motives. But look at what mipsman really wrote. Is he supporting your complaint with additional factual evidence, or is he merely using it as a pretext to make false implications about Jews in general?
nebuli
[quote]
John John, I didn’t read the other thread you complained about, so I cannot comment on the points you raised about possible anti-Christian bias. Also, I can understand your resentment at someone else attempting to explain your motives. But look at what mipsman really wrote. Is he supporting your complaint with additional factual evidence, or is he merely using it as a pretext to make false implications about Jews in general?
[/quote
Mispman was echoing my question “Why are you so upset about these questions and were not about the questions of Jesus’ father, which are insulting in and of themselves”? Mipsman fairly asked if there was a double standard on this board, a question which I do not see as biased, but, rather, as asking if bias exists here. I cannot answer him, since I do not know, but, like him, I’m curious that people like tom jump in with accusations at the mere asking of a question.
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
Sorry, nebuli, I did not properly answer your fair question. I cannot answer for mipsman, only give you my impression that he is not being biased, or using anything as a pretext for something else. I cannot even tell you what tom’s motivation is, but merely speculate. Our words, yours, mine, everyones, speak for themselves and I see nothing overtly sinister.
Just trying to level the field.
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
The facts, John John, are that you asked why two threads were treated differently when, in fact, the two threads were treated in exactly the same way.
I have ascribed no motive to your asking questions that fall into the category of “Have you stopped beating your wife?”
As to mipsman’s post, I ascribed no motive to it, either. I noted that I found the statement
to be out of line, in that it implies that all Jews are persecuted because they are given special treatment. (He did not specify Jews on this MB; he did not indicate who the “they” who have double standards were; he did not indicate what double standards were being held.
Since, as I have already shown, the posts about which you raised a question were not treated in any way differently, and yet he attempted to echo his perception of your thoughts, his attempt to cast aspersions on either Nickrez or the moderators, in general seems to be out of line.
Now, as to why you were claiming that two identical treatments of threads indicated a double standard, I am perfectly willing to let you explain that for yourself.
Tom~
tom
No attempt was made or suggested by mipsman or myself.
tom
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
Both threads were moved from GQ to GD in about 1 1/2 days. The one thread which had received an actual troll post also received a comment from the moderator.
That is equal treatment.
In retrospect, I do have to point out that your earlier statement
is also entirely false, here. If you will scroll up, you will see that I have actually participated in this thread, while you have merely inserted yourself into the thread to make unsubstantiated charges.
Mipsman has also participated in this thread.
You are, actually, the only interloper, having contributed nothing to the subject.
Tom~