Tom, I don’t have your audacity to post reasons why I think Jews are persecuted. I do not presume to know. I would, however, like to hear why Jews think they are persecuted.
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
Thomas, show us where a moderator made a similar cautionary note in the “Jesus real Father” thread, which is tailor made for Christian bashers? I must have missed that. That question is one at the top of the list of the Christian haters.
Things are not what they seem to be; nor are they otherwise.
[lankavatara Sutra]
And you continue to ignore the fact that Nickerz posted that directly after KM2 posted his little assault. There were no assults in the other thread; there was nothing to prompt a comment.
Tom~
[Moderator Hat: ON]
Ok, folks – let’s end the argument about Nickrz and debate the actual topic (or don’t and let it die; I don’t care either way). You want to complain about the way Nickrz acted? Take it to the Pit. Otherwise, end it.
David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator
[Moderator Hat: OFF]
David, I have no problem with Nickrz’ decision, or him as a moderator, to move that post and his cautionary note, but I’m curious why a similar caution was not sounded in the “Jesus’ real Father” thread. I asked Tom to produce that and he could not, ergo THE TWO TOPICS WERE NOT TREATED EQUALLY.
I hardly think this topic is at the stage to be moved to the Pit. It is a difference of opinion, at this point.
The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. Gracian.
[Moderator Hat: ON AGAIN]
John John, I’ve already asked you to take it to the Pit. I didn’t ask for you to now argue with me about this point. The Pit is not only for pure flames. As the Pit’s description clearly says, “This is the place for all complaints and other discussion regarding administration of the SDMB.”
So take it there. Period.
David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator
[Moderator Hat: OFF]
John John:
Yes.
Depends on your definition of “chosen.” We Jews believe that the matter of “chosenness” means chosen to bear extra responsibilities that G-d has not imposed on the other nations. Hence, by this definition, no, not everyone is part of the “chosen” people.
But that doesn’t mean that non-Jews are inferior people, or that they weren’t made in G-d’s image. Not true at all.
Chaim Mattis Keller
and
Just because some ignorant drunkards are bigots, doesn’t mean we’re all that way! I, for one, am tired of this ceaseless smearing of beer-hall trash, many of whom are my good friends and relatives, and most of whom are fine, decent people, upstanding members of their communities if not always steadily so. Your very language is condescending: Note the way Rousseau uses “inebriated logic” as an insult, as if there were something inherently wrong with or inferiorabout it! Why some of the world’s most profound and original thinkers did all their best work while sprawled under the tables of the world’s bars, pubs, and beer halls, and its high time we stopped hiding the truth about this in our schools’ “history” (read: “propaganda”)classes. Then maybe we wouldn’t have to put up with such blatant derogation from the posters at this site. Perpetuating negative stereotypes does nothing to bolster your case, gentlemen, and equating us with “rednecks” and “failures” (!)shows an insensitivity that springs from nothing but base of ignorance of this proud demographic!
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle, Hobbes was fond of his dram/
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart, “I drink, therefore I am!”…
David, the “Christmas in the Schools” thread that you started was a lot more acrimonious than this thread by a factor of 10 and you did not threaten to send it to the Pit.
I am not arguing with you but simply asking a question. I’m also not arguing with tom, whom I like, and you and mipsman too, we are just having a difference of opinion, which I thought was part of a Great Debate.
The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. Gracian.
Heaven…One to beam up!
There’s nothin’ Nietzsche couldn’t teach ya
‘Bout the raisin’ of the wrist…
[Moderator Hat: Back On Again]
You know, John John, I’m beginning to think you have a serious inability to understand plain English. I told you that you could discuss the moderation aspects in the Pit. I explained why. You seem absolutely unable to comprehend these simple things. So I’ll make it simpler: Next post on that topic in this thread gets deleted. Period. Be glad I didn’t just delete the one you already posted.
David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator
[Moderator Hat: OFF]
Just wanted to point out that not everyone holds to this. I believe that the Reform and Reconstructionist Movements particularly do not go for this idea. In fact, this is true for almost everything. CMKeller is Orthodox (I think? Maybe Conservative?), and is expressing his point of view as a member of that movement. It should be noted that the very large majority of American Jews are not Orthodox (I read a little while back that 18% of American Jews who practice Judasim consider themselves to Orthodox).
No offense intended, CM.
~Kyla
“Anger is what makes America great.”
Let’s not forget where Hitler got his start.
The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.
Yeah, Rousseau, but Hitler was not included in the same Monty Python skit.
Thanks Kyla. The whole concept of an extra special relantionship or separate covenant with GOD, in preference to and to the exclusion of everyone else, is wrong and has an arrogant tone to it. GOD exacts no extra burden from anyone. We are ALL equal before GOD and equally responsible. WE ARE ALL EQUALLY GOD’S CHILDREN.
There aren’t too many different ways you can interpret the word CHOSEN.
The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. Gracian.
Mipsman, do you notice a certain uneven slant to the field?
The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. Gracian.
John John:
Well, except that the Jewish (OT) and Christian (NT) Scriptures both say that that relationship is real. Some Christians have looked at some NT Scripture and claimed that the “torch has been passed” to Christians, but that is a distinctly minority opinion among Christian theologians, today. The Catholic Church specifically recognizes the Jewish people as the Chosen People. You’re perfectly free to disagree with that in your personal spirituality or theology, but you are arguing against the vast majority of Christian thought when you do.
No aspect of the concept of a Chosen People claims that God loves any person more than another, only that among the peoples, God has chosen a specific mission for one group.
Tom~
Kyla:
Oops! Good catch…I usually remember to specifically state “Orthodox.”
However, I did think that Reform and Reconstructionist do believe that Jews were “chosen” for the responsibility of improving the world, or “tikkun olam,” even if they don’t think that the entire Torah is binding.
John John:
Not according to the beliefs of Orthodox Jews. We believe that Jews are responsible for obeying all 613 commandments of the Torah, and that non-Jews are responsible for obeying the 7 Noahide laws. We do believe that anyone who fulfills his responsibility is equally good, but not that everyone’s responsiblity is equal.
And bear in mind that Judaism allows people to convert. It’s not inherently exclusive. It merely means that those who do not choose to convert need not take on those extra responsibilities.
Well, of course “chosen” means the same thing, but it must be qualified, “chosen for what”? For undeserved extra privilege? Or for extra responsibility?
Chaim Mattis Keller