Why are Jews still hated so much around the world outside of the U.S.?

[FinnAgain]

@treis

And Uganda was rejected mostly because it was not the Holy Land. Whether or not early Zionist were religious, the movement was based on returning Jews to the land they were promised in the Bible. ’

Wrong on both counts. Uganda was rejected because it was not the ancestral homeland of the Jews. The movement was not based on returning to “land they were promised in the Bible”, *but on returning to the ancestral homeland of the Jews. * You are free to invent a pejorative and counter-factual narrative if you insist, but the purpose it serves will be minimal beyond appealing to a certain type of person. As for trying to claim it was somehow driven by the Torah because the Torah also contains history? No, that’s simply nonsensical and betrays your ignorance of Judaism. If you don’t think ancient Israel is mentioned in the Talmud, you’ve got another thing coming.

To say nothing of the fact that there’s massive archaeological evidence. Your blithe dismissal shows that you’re ignorant about the region. It is, without a doubt, one of the most historically rich locations in the known world. The Western Wall, for example, has been a site of tremendous significance going back thousands of years. The idea that people wouldn’t have had any attachment to it, and archaeologists would have let the public know what it was about without the Torah, is nonsense.

@treis

Besides, you can’t separate history from religion in this case.

You can if you know what you’re talking about. The early Zionists were secular. Period. Full stop. It was not a religious motivation. Your desire to inject religion in the discussion should not be confused for it somehow being inescapable. Telling the reason Israel has historical resonance? That’s… interesting. Yet again, I asked you who your rabbi was when you become Bar Mitzvah (ya know, when you were telling a bunch of modern Jews in this thread that they “underestimate the impact of the Bible on modern Jews.”

Yet again you’re trying to tell Jews what they think, it’s rather silly. Israel has resonance because it has millenia of history. Massada would still be there even if the Torah had never been scribed. The Arch of Titus in Rome, commemorating the sacking of Jerusalem, would still be there. And so on. Learning is important to the Jewish people, and one of our most central cultural values. We remember. Yes, even the atheists.

@treis

.
Then the world responsible has two meanings. “Increased CO2 in the atmosphere is responsible for global warming”. “The criminal will be held responsible for his actions”.

If this was the SAT, we’d hope that someone taking the verbal section would at least be cognizant of verb tenses. Or, as I posted and you ignored:

That’s because it is evidence of anti-Semitism.
What’s the verb there, Treis? “Are” is not past tense. “Are” is present tense. If you believe that “Jews” today are responsible for actions allegedly taken by a handfull of people who are so ancient that their bones are dust and their names mostly forgotten? Then yah, that’s anti-Semitism.

@treis

I gave you three specific problems with the question:
(1) “One word wrong”
(2) Plural nouns have ambiguous meanings
(3) Responsible has various meanings

While your apologia for anti-Semitism is spiritied, this is even sillier than what preceded it. There’s no ambiguity to saying that any Jews at all today bear any form of responsibility, in any of its various means, for something that, even if it happened, happened thousands of years ago. It’s anti-Semitic no matter how you try to massage it into being “reasonable”. The verb is present tense, not past. This is elementary and your denial is risible.

“Christians are responsible for the murder of Hypatia of Alexandria” is a statement that reveals anti-Christian bigotry even if someone thinks that it’s only some-but-not-all Christians who bear responsibility for a murder which occurred before the modern English language was a glimmer in a Germanic eye.

[treis]

@Malthus

The latter two are quite irrelevant. It matters not how “responsible” is interpreted and whether “Jews” is ambiguously applied to some Jews or all.

The significant point is that Jews today are in no way, form or degree, whether only some or all, “responsible”, in either the moral or causitive sense, for the death of Jesus - except of course in the opinions of those who hold to the (widespread) anti-Semitic trope.

I do not see this in any way a “trick question”. Two of your “problems” are not problems in this context, and the third is a mere assertion that people are likely to be confused and not understand the use of the present tense in a sentence. An assertion for which you offer no proof.

Ultimately, the point is that they clearly designed their survey in a way to get the result they wanted. They wanted a big antisemitism number, and that’s what they got. I see no reason to trust the numbers they got any more than something generated by the NRA on gun control.

[aldiboronti]

@Shagnasty

I still hear anti-semitic comments coming from people I know personally even in England even though hardly any Jews live there today

Hardly any Jews live there today? Where on earth are you getting that from?

The UK is home to the second largest Jewish population in Europe, and has the fifth largest Jewish community worldwide.[

Link

And, yes, there is anti-semitism but no more so than in the US.

[Ibn_Warraq]

@aldiboronti

Hardly any Jews live there today? Where on earth are you getting that from?

Link

And, yes, there is anti-semitism but no more so than in the US.

290,000 out of a nation of around 60 million people doesn’t sound very much to me.

Beyond that, the reports and studies presented who that while the UK isn’t as anti-Semitic as Hungary or Spain, it certainly has more anti-Semitism than the US.

[Rune]

Hardly any Jews living in Denmark. I haven’t seen one in thirty years that I know of. Don’t know if there used to be more. They’re still harassed though, but by Muslim immigrants that hate them on account of Israel. It wouldn’t be safe to clearly signal being Jewish in many public places. Beyond that I don’t think the average Dane gives much thought to Jews, any more than he would any other marginal religious group.

[Simple_Linctus]

Actually, Denmark, much like the UK, has an exceptional record of helping the Jews in the Holocaust and Second World War. Essentially the Danish state and people while under occupation went to extraordinary efforts to evacuate the Jewish population to Sweden. See Rescue of the Danish Jews - Wikipedia

It does not at all surprise me that Muslim immigrants are launching anti-semitic attacks there.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Moved on from the “darkies can’t be British” argument, I see.

[Simple_Linctus]

That was never my argument. Whether it is my fault or yours that you misunderstood it is debatable, but given your bringing it up once again I will assume it was indeed yours.

[rogerbox]

@AK84

Jews are hated in Thailand? The Philippines? Sri Lanka? China? Japan? Iceland? South Africa?

I’ve heard some mild “jews are cheap” type of negative stereotypes in the Philippines but that is just an anecdote from a few people. I have seen a video of an Israeli girl going around China and asking Chinese people what they thought of Jews (she spoke chinese), and all the chinese also called jews careful with their money etc, but they meant it in a complimentary way and said they are similar to Chinese people in that respect.

[astro]

Why Jews are disliked varies from region to region. Some will have a historical animus, some will have a religious animus, and some will simply be world class paranoiacs and bigots for whom all conspiracies end and begin with the Jews.

These irrational prejudices aside some of animus outside the religious/historical aspect comes from the fact that Israelis have not done themselves any favors with their behavior as word travelers, and have in many peoples minds established themselves as possibly the most obnoxious tourists on the face of the the planet. There are many people who have no quarrel with Jews as on a religious or historical basis but simply consider Jews to be bad actors based on their interactions with traveling Israelis.

[amanset]

@Ibn_Warraq

Here’s the study for anyone wanting a cite. Warning, PDF.
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/adl_anti-semitism_presentation_february_2012.pdf

I’m catching up with this thread (the joys of sitting at work on a Saturday) and I have to say that that is a hilariously bad study. Two pretty clear examples:

Page 12:
The question is quoted as being both “The Jews are responsible for the death of Christ”, which damns all Jews, but also “Jews are responsible for the death of Christ”, which merely says that the people who have the responsibility were Jewish. Which is it, ADL?

Page 17:
Much is made of the apparent “dramatic” increase in anti-Semitism in the UK. The reality is, even after the amount having “increased most dramatically” it is still less than any other country both in the 2009 survey and the 2012 one, which can be seen in the chart on the very next page.

Percentage increases are utterly meaningless. A change from one to two of a variable is an increase of 100% but statistically meaningless if that variable can go sufficiently high. Absolutely pathetic borderline trolling from the ADL.

[Jackmannii]

@astro

There are many people who have no quarrel with Jews as on a religious or historical basis but simply consider Jews to be bad actors based on their interactions with traveling Israelis.

Really? It’s the first time I’ve seen this meme.

From time to time there are international surveys in the tourism industry asking which countries produce the most obnoxious travelers, and I don’t recall seeing Israelis mentioned. For instance, here’s a recent Expedia survey in which the French, Indians and Chinese held down the bottom three spots.

More on disliked nationalities.

Israelis don’t seem to make the radar screen based on my own superficial Google survey of tourism surveys. So if anti-Semitism around the world is mainly being driven by stinky Israeli tourists, it’s news to me.

As for claims the ADL is juicing up reports of anti-Semitism to keep itself in business: that has about as much validity as claiming that the American Cancer Society is in bed with Big Pharma and suppressing effective natural cures, in order to preserve its funding and salaries (there are alt med advocates who argue this).

[suranyi]

@Ibn_Warraq

290,000 out of a nation of around 60 million people doesn’t sound very much to me.

Beyond that, the reports and studies presented who that while the UK isn’t as anti-Semitic as Hungary or Spain, it certainly has more anti-Semitism than the US.

Actually, 290,000 is the second largest number of Jews of any country in Europe. Only France has more.

There used to be a lot more Jews in Europe – many millions more – but I’m sure you know why there aren’t anymore.

[Shagnasty]

@suranyi

Actually, 290,000 is the second largest number of Jews of any country in Europe. Only France has more.

There used to be a lot more Jews in Europe – many millions more – but I’m sure you know why there aren’t anymore.

It is still a pretty tiny number. Over 80% of the Jews in the world live in the U.S. and Israel alone and those due due to mass migrations far from where they lived. That takes a lot of work and strong motivations to relocate so many people in that way. Jews tend to be a pretty affluent group and could move whenever they want to today. There has to be a reason why so few pick Europe or Asian countries outside of the obvious reasons like the Holocaust in Germany and Eastern Europe.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Ibn_Warraq

Actually no, according to traditional Judaism, eating Sushi won’t send you to hell.

It’s only if you eat sushi AND are Jewish that it’s a problem.

As far as they were concerned, Kosher laws etc. applied to Jews and no one else.

The same is true of Muslims. They think Muslims have to pray five times abstain from alcohol, not eat pork etc., but that doesn’t apply to Christians or Jews.

So the noahide laws don’t apply or just the dietary portions of it?

What about buddhists?

[tomndebb]

@Damuri_Ajashi

So the noahide laws don’t apply or just the dietary portions of it?

The only one of the Noachide laws that is “dietary” is Ever Min HaChay: The prohibition against eating the flesh of an alive animal.

Sushi does not involve eating living animals, only animals that have not been cooked. Regardless of one’s feelings about shushi, sashimi, etc., it is generally recognized that the animals involved are already dead. They would not meet the rules of Kashrut, either in preparation or, often, in selection, but sushi does not violate the Noachide Laws.

[tomndebb]

OK. Curious about the way the question was phrased, I went looking for “live sushi” and found some. Most of it appears to be fish that has been killed during the meal preparation, with the bodies continuing to spasm in post-death neural activities as the meal begins.

I am not going to pretend to be a Talmudic scholar rendering a judgment on this activity. My guess would be that as long as the animal is actually killed, (with as little pain as possible), before it was eaten, it would not violate Ever Min HaChay, but that if the diners began to carve into the animal before its death, it would be a violation.

[Captain_Amazing]

@tomndebb

OK. Curious about the way the question was phrased, I went looking for “live sushi” and found some. Most of it appears to be fish that has been killed during the meal preparation, with the bodies continuing to spasm in post-death neural activities as the meal begins.

I am not going to pretend to be a Talmudic scholar rendering a judgment on this activity. My guess would be that as long as the animal is actually killed, (with as little pain as possible), before it was eaten, it would not violate Ever Min HaChay, but that if the diners began to carve into the animal before its death, it would be a violation.

I think, and I’m not an expert on this, but the fact that it’s still moving shows that it’s halachically still alive. The thing is, I don’t think that Ever Min HaChay applies to fish for Jews, but it does for Gentiles.

[astro]

@Jackmannii

Really? It’s the first time I’ve seen this meme.

From time to time there are international surveys in the tourism industry asking which countries produce the most obnoxious travelers, and I don’t recall seeing Israelis mentioned. For instance, here’s a recent Expedia survey in which the French, Indians and Chinese held down the bottom three spots.

More on disliked nationalities.

Israelis don’t seem to make the radar screen based on my own superficial Google survey of tourism surveys. So if anti-Semitism around the world is mainly being driven by stinky Israeli tourists, it’s news to me.

As for claims the ADL is juicing up reports of anti-Semitism to keep itself in business: that has about as much validity as claiming that the American Cancer Society is in bed with Big Pharma and suppressing effective natural cures, in order to preserve its funding and salaries (there are alt med advocates who argue this).

This is hardly recent news. Israeli tourists have had a pretty poor reputation for some time now. The worst offenders are mainly young male Israelis. Their behavioral reputation is so poor some hostels in places as far away as New Zealand refuse to deal with them.

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=3310

[Siam_Sam]

@astro

This is hardly recent news. Israeli tourists have had a pretty poor reputation for some time now. The worst offenders are mainly young male Israelis. Their behavioral reputation is so poor some hostels in places as far away as New Zealand refuse to deal with them.

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=3310

Plus see posts Nos. 84 and 166.