Why are kids shooting their friends coast to coast?

Great Debates
41

I don’t think any of them thought it was okay behavior and I have a problem with the title here “shooting their friends.”
Maybe that’s the problem, I’m young enough to not have considered everyone in class with me (way back in early nineties) a friend. They were more like sniveling demons that took every chance they could to belitte me.

For some people that sort of mistreatment just turns them all psycho and then they go blow away the people that probably would of turned into the idiots that actually think women need make-up and all look horrible in the morning. Or they just need that lexus, and aren’t you the loser for not being in support of their payment for the services of whores. Or other such bizarre adult clique forming behaviors.

I mean I envisioned maiming my main abuser in high school to the point he’d be incapacited for life (just to keep my cool). The thing is, that was enough for me, I didn’t actually do it. Others are more impulsive.

42

People need to start teaching their children to NOT be jerks. Remember highschool, or have you noticed if still there, the “leader” of a clique makes snide comments about everyone. Rarely actually clever. But his “dogs” all fall around him and congratulate him at every idiotic comment? Why is this? Its like its good to be an insensitive bastard. I’m just saying that most people don’t find it to be a validation of their existence and are happy to be just noticed (I’d been instructed to feel happy I was noticed when verbally abused by strangers!)…most of us, if not for a fear of prison, would more likely prefer to lift up our chairs, or computer monitors and bash the offensive ‘person’ to death. Or is that just me?

And I’m lazy. I’m replying to the very first post. I can’t be bothered to read all the rest.

43

tracer, are you joking or have you really not heard of the chicken finger incident?

http://www.jonesborosun.com/viewarchivenewssports.php3?db=newsarchive&idnum=3581

44

I have to admit, I have not heard the chicken finger reference either, its definitely interesting.

As for invisibleOLDlady: Well I do see your point, I too remember those idiotic dickheads. But Oddly enough after I went to my 10th reunion [skipped #5 too soon] I saw some of the people who were complete ass holes back in high school, but now a certain metamorphosis has happened. Some have settled down, have a couple toddlers, or are married with no children etc…etc…
I don’t know if it is the fact that they are all over 25 and adulthood has set in or if they finally realized that picking on others has no real value to them. But possibly when they were in their adolescence they needed the extra energy of picking on others to fulfill what they didn’t have. I do not know. All I know is that right now they seem to have changed.

It is actually quite interesting to see the people you knew in Highschool more than 10 years later. It is humbling, and at the same time quite nice to see where their at.
For the most part, there are a select few that are still irrationally assholes…

45

i think we (americans) need to stop worshiping at the church of the gun. we need to stop the glamorizing of violence (TV, movies, video games…) these are necessary steps in the prevention of our kids killing each other.

46

We seem to be drifting further and further away from legitimate “causes”. Are you saying guns, TV, movies, and video games are to blame?

If so, I wonder when the rest of us that have been subjected to such bombardment of evil are going to snap. Must be only a matter of time, right? :rolleyes:

47

i dont think guns, tv, movies and video games are the cause of violence per se. i believe they portray violence as acceptable behavior, when we all should really know better. ultimatly, i think it is the job of the parents to educate thier kids about violence and the consequences of thier actions. it makes it tough when kids are seeing violence as acceptable everywhere they look. violence is a real issue for everyone, but i don’t think movies and tv portray it as it really is. it seems on tv, shooting people or using a gun is the answer to most all problems. (a friend told me her dad, a penn. state trooper for 25 yrs, never pulled his gun out-- would be a boring cop show!)

where am i going with this? i forgot… i think faster than i type and my train of thought derails…the boss is giving me the hairy eye-ball, got to get back to work…(or maybe i should just shoot him?)

48

I think gatopescado has a valid point. Granted we have been skirting around this same point throughout this post. But TV, Violent Video Games, incessent Violence portrayed as OK on movies/tv. All of this creates a numbness that Adults adapt to and integrate quite easily because we have had the chance to build the necessary coping mechanisms and adaptation traits. And we have a good understanding of consequences.[most adults but not all, I should say]

But to the adolescent, they may think they know everything, and they may think they can save the world or destroy it whatever…but SOME adolescence seem to not be able to develope the correct coping/adaptation mechanisms to be able to rightfully judge true good from bad. And sometimes, these very youths kill their peers.

I think certain personality types are more susceptible than others, but all in all parenting and role models can have a large impact on what children do and think.

ALSO! gatopescado’s last statement pretty much sums it up as well…

49

If the parents are responsible for raising their children, then they shouldn’t take them to violent movies, let them watch violent TV, or buy violent video games. But I think denying that violence actually exists is an even WORSE problem, and sets up the childeren to be worse off in the long run. Unadapted. Seems to me they should do their best to teach why violence isn’t a good solution, instead of pretending it doesn’t exist.

And there are plenty of movies and the like out there that show violence as being truely bad, causing more problems than it solves, etc.

50

Is this saying that most parents know, or that most parents don’t know?
I think most parents don’t know. Despite all the concern over school shootings, I don’t think it’s something parents really worry about until it’s too late. After the Columbine shootings, when I said the parents ought to have known what was going on, my brother pointed out that our parents never would have figured it out if either of us had decided to start stockpiling rifles. We got good grades, had good friends, didn’t use drugs didn’t talk about blowing people up-all the signs I think parents use when deciding whether or not their kids are in trouble. Our parents trusted that we weren’t building up arsenals.
After the Santee shooting, I felt sorry for the friends and the man who said they questioned the shooter about his intentions and believed him when he said he wouldn’t shoot anyone. It would take a high level of honesty to say,“My friend is a psycho and I fully believe I need to call the police.” I don’t know if I could be that honest if I was dealing with a friend or a family member, to be truthful. Could most people?

51

Forgive me if anyone already mentioned these points (I came into this debate late and read the OP and about 50% of the replies) but:

1.) Shootings in schools are actually on the decline. It’s just the events are so striking they stay in memory longer, so it seems like they are frequent circumstances. Sorta like airplane crashes.

2.) Wanna get a kid to shoot classmates? first you need a kid who is a psychopath and has no moral problems with murder. then have his (or more rarely, her) peers pick on him to the point that any self-preservatory instincts that would prevent him from shooting them are no longer sufficient to balance out the pleasure that revenge would give him/her.

52

UUHH!!??? First you need a kid who is a psychopath?? I don’t think so. As a matter of fact the kids that actually do the shooting are pretty far from psychopaths!

Have you thought about the moral habits of a 14 year old?
I don’t beleive they think about murder on a daily basis, as a matter of fact I don’t beleive they are even thinking about murder when they fire a gun. This may be a pretty bold statement but come on. I think the children who are doing the shooting are being picked on and ridiculed above and beyond what normally happens.

I have seen some of the children in interviews after the fact. A lot of them are in desperate need of attention. Granted it is a horrible way to get attention.

But I think gross generalizing and calling them all psychopaths is not appropriate. Then again I don’t know all their psychological back rounds…

53

phoenix- couldn’t agree more! dry up the demand for this crap and supply will wither! would yak more, but gotta go home! (i wouldn’t really shoot my boss, he’s cool)

54

Philosopher:

You’re opinions are very common, and reflect an admiral reluctance to see children as capable of evil acts, and of course most are not. However, in the course of my research (in psychology) I have become familiar with many of their case histories (such as those of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, who did not survive to give interviews) and post-crime interviews (such as Andrew Golden, Nathan Brazill, and others who did survive). Most of these “children” have long histories of aggressive behavior, social isolation, bullying and elaborate fantasies about violence and sometimes sexual violence. Their crimes are viciously premeditated more often than not…take for example the case of Andrew Golden and his accomplice (who’s name eludes me at the moment). These two “children” pulled the fire alarm at their school and sniped (with hunting rifles) their peers one by one as they exited the school. It is naive (though motivated by an admiral nurturance) to suggest that “murder was not on their minds” Yes many of these children have been picked on by peers, but often that is because their peers sensed that they were “wierd” or psychopathic. Many people are reluctant to acknowledge that a small minority of children are capable of murder, sex crimes and other horrible acts. It is not society’s fault, but rather the fault of a few rare psychopathic children who obtain gratification through violence.

55

Obviously I meant to say that Philosopher has an “admirable” nurturant attitude toward children, not an “admiral” nurturance. That’s what I get for watching too many moview about the navy.

56

After spending considerable time reading all of the replies in this thread, I’ve just remained at my original conclusion that mass media is making the problem seem big when it really isn’t.
I find that administrations in schools as well as the public are being influenced far too much by the media coverage in these isolated incidents of school shootings. That plus the fact that school officials are always looking for the quickest solution to a problem (which is almost never the best/logical solution) leads to the over-compensation of these events into normal school conduct. For example, the school district I go to (I am a junior in high school) is failing Pennsylvania’s academic standardized tests. This means that the distric has 3 years to improve the scores to acceptable before the state takes over the district.
Meanwhile, the school has implemented “focus” lessons into all major subjects, taking up at least 15 minutes of every class. These focus lessons consist of such ridiculous concepts as verbs and research in a library. I find these lessons a waste of time as well as the other 90% of my school. However, the administrators feel that these focus lessons will improve standardized test scores.
Perhaps they are correct, these “focus” lessons may improve the scores marginally for the short term. However, the district is only thinking on the short-term. These implementations will only lead to more dumbing-down in the classroom, defeating the original intent of the focus lessons.
I must apologize for that lengthy example. The whole point of it was to show the correlation between that problem/solution and the problem of school shootings and the solution of initiating “zero-tolerance” policies for weapons and even childish behavior that may somehow resemble looking like somewhat of a threat. The fact that children are being suspended, arrested, etc. for pointing food at classmates and bringing nail clippers to school is just plain wrong. If a student wanted to hurt someone, I doubt they would do it with a nail-clipper. Not to mention the stereotyping of students because of what they wear. My school has implemented a very strict dress-code requiring that no student wear hooded or pocketed sweatshirts, and no “objectional” material is allowed on shirts (ex. tobacco products, any type of violence). There is much else in the dress-code, all of which is unnecessary, but I won’t mention that. The point is that they judge students by the way they look, just like jocks, bullies, etc. For example, a day after the columbine shooting (at which time I hadn’t watched the news or heard of it yet) I walked to school wearing a trenchcoat. The teachers looked very seriously at me at the front door and asked me to please go back home and return to school without the trenchcoat. I asked why, and they yelled at me (“You heard me!! Do as you’re told!”) On a semi-unrelated note, later in that day, during school, two students were suspended for saying the word “bomb”. Oh well. The whole point I was getting at is the way things are now must change. The schools are paying attention to insignificant occurances, while the real damage is being done to the students, which is ultimately the cause of the shootings in the first place.

BTW, The only thing accomplished by establishing a weapons-free environment is the notion that if you’re a jock/bully/other strong or buff student, you will be ahead of the crowd in authority. Of course, students could learn the martial arts…

57

Dude, when I was 14 I thought about murder on a daily basis. I wanted all of the preps to die. They made my life hell. I hated waking up every morning just so I could go to prison for six hours and be picked on…

Luckily, I didn’t even realize it until after I made a couple friends. No telling what could have happened. (Such as the fact that if one calls in a bomb threat, students are sent to the outdoor bleachers. Bomb under the bleachers = lots of dead people)

58

Well Geoff, This is quite interestng!

First of all let me say welcome to the board. Second let me say it is very nice to have a voice from the inside if you will. I have been out of High school for a long time, and I have to tell you I would not go back for anything. I do understand some of what you are going through. Granted when I was in school we did not have very many threats with guns. If someone was bullying you, you did one of two things. You either grew balls big enough to carry in a dump truck and stood up for yourself or you took the abuse the best way you knew how…[ignoring, shifting attention somewhere else, or worse yet, picking on someone even lower than you] I recommend standing up for yourself. The absolute worse that could happen is you get your ass beat. SO WHAT! YOUR NOT DEAD!!! and only fists were used. And sometimes, its the smallest person who can pack the biggest punch. I am not trying to advocate violence.

There is a huge difference between threatening someone with a gun and threatening someone with a fist. We all know this. When someone utilizes a gun they know as well as you do that there is nothing you can do to stop what ever they are going to do. They either decide to shoot you, or leave you. Either way they take your energy, and your dignity, or your life. But if someone threatens you with their fists, its not that they want to kill you, they are testing you.

Anyway I am getting a little off the subject. Essentially the burdens faced throughout highschool need to be better understood by the people in charge, the board of Ed, the teachers, and the parents. I agree with you Geoff, the people that have the administrative powers are paying attention to the little insignificant occurances. But, they are also sitting through meetings that you know nothing about. Meetings that deal with “warning signs of potentially violent children” and “how to calm a threatening student down” etc…etc… So these people who are in charge are dealing with their faitr share of shit as well. They are just as jittery as the students, infact, probably more so.

This does not mean they are exempt from doing their jobs, or making correct decisions. And we all know administrators can fuck up. {alot}

It is a sad game some high schoolers have to play these days. After carfully looking at these posts and seeing everyones views, American schools are scary. More now than ever. But one must not forget that getting through it is what it is all about. Wait till you get to college, and you see what realms open up then. AHH YESSS!! you will have a voice that is heard, and you can actually decide what it is you want to do in this world. Fuck the jocks, and bullies, their miniscule compared to the rest of YOUR life.

OK as for the post directed to me about how kids can be psychopathic…I think we were both right. Avalongod, some kids can definitely be psychopathic. I remember the incident in the UK when those 10 year old boys lead the 2 year old away and killed him…:frowning: so sad… But thanks for initially thinking I was in the navy (Admiral) I understood :slight_smile: OK I better go if I don’t start dinner the wife might want to SHOOT meee!!! :wink: