Latest Shooting - anyone surprised?

It kind of surprises me that it doesn’t happen more often.

In every school in the country, maybe in the world, kids get picked on and harassed all day, every day. Teachers and principals don’t (can’t?) do anything about it. It’s happened to all of us, some more than our fair share, and yet when one or two kids here and there snap and start shooting, we’re all so surprised.
If it were an adult who got a job in corporate america, and everyday at work other employees verbally harass him by calling him derogatory names, and it happened year after year the way it does to kids in school, would anyone be surprised if he got violent or filed suit? A kid may be able to file suit, but even if he wins, its not going to keep him from getting harassed even more. It may be different for an adult, who can quit and find another job if he has to (and he shouldn’t have to), but I think it’s troubling that society would look out more for an adult, who should be more able to handle it, than for a high school or junior high kid. I’m not sure what a good solution for the problem would be, definitely not in the short term, but just an observation that I would like some thoughts on.

As long as kids remain the results of two human beings genetic material comingling, then the teasing and harrassment will remain. My $.02

<pours gasoline, lights match, steps back>

T-minus ten seconds

Of course these tragedies might not be so frequent, if we didn’t have so many guns in this society.

3, 2, 1…

**

Most kids aren’t so bad. It doesn’t surprise me at all that school shootings are uncommon.

**

Except when I was younger, I’m 24, when the kid snapped it most likely resulted in someone getting a fat lip or a bloody nose. I suspect that’s typically the result we see these days but that doesn’t make the news.

**

I have a question I’m not sure there’s an answer to. Are kids being picked on more today then they were in the past? Most of the harassment I saw growing up was in middle school and by the time I was a junior it had become virtually zero.

Marc

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MGibson *
**

Most kids aren’t bad, but even if a disgruntled student went postal at every school in the country, its still a relatively small percentage of total kids.

I agree, except instead of a fist fight, which a particularly oppressed kid doesn’t have the confidence to start, he decides its easier to get a gun, because they are easier to come by or because up until Columbine no one really seriously entertained the idea.

I think all of this is ridiculous. It’s ridiculous that the kid brought a gun to school and started shooting. It’s ridiculous that people would tease a kid. It’s even more ridiculous that a kid let’s themselves give in to the stupid BS taunting and harassment. It might be a bit of a cliche, but just don’t listen! I don’t think it’s that hard. If it’s only verbal disregard it. If it becomes physical then the administration should (has to?) get involved. I don’t think there is any excuse for this kind of shit. It’s pretty irritating that the news will try to push blame away from the shooter onto the shooter’s tormentors. The shooter is the one responsible here, let’s not push this off onto something/someone else.

There are plenty of other solutions when there are problems at school. Anything more than a fistfight (as a last resort) is stupid.

Don’t be ridiculous. If school kids didn’t have unlimited access to firearms, they would just beat each other to death with text books and stuff.

:wink:

If you believe this, you have not experienced the sort of abuse that these kids get - often on top of other sorts of abuse at home. Good for you, but try to be a little more generous. I do not exempt the kids from blame, but I can understand the motive.

I’m very surprised that this doesn’t happen more often. If I had had easy access to a gun when I was in junior high, there is a frighteningly high chance that I would have used it. I’m not sure on who.

“Just don’t listen” is viable advice for an adult (although few adults have to deal with the level of verbal abuse that is the norm in middle and high schools). Most kids do not have the emotional maturity to ignore a steady barrage of taunting and rumor-spreading. Bear in mind that once a child becomes a target for bullying, they tend to remain a target for months or years. Ignoring the perpetrators may be the best thing to do in the long run, but it rarely has any immediate effect.

I am also surprised that more kids don’t snap.

Just how frequent do you think these tragedies happen?

Just to bring the statement into a shades-of-grey arena.

I don’t believe people should have to take shit from anyone. I support people standing up for themselves because it is my natural behavior for me to do the same. Now if someone is coming into my house and beating the crap out of me everyday, you had better believe I’m gonna get a gun and use it first as a threat, and if that didn’t work, then use it as a weapon to stop the guy. On the other end of the extreme is someone going into a school with an automatic weapon and bombs, randomly shooting people who had nothing to do with it. That is clearly a very bad thing, and indefensible. The problem lies in the middle(duh). If a kid is being tormented phyisically and mentally what is he supposed to do. I have to admit I support his right to pysically defend himself. But if he is smaller or outnumbered what is he supposed to do. Should he keep taking it since he is unable to fight back. Should he carry a knife, pepper spray, gun? I don’t think anybody should be forced to be a victim , just because they are smaller or weaker.
The whole situation is a true tragedy, but with basic human nature, I don’t see an answer. Sorry to be a cold-hearted pragmatist, but we care so much about students getting killed in the rare incidents where someone does freak out, and not giving a shit about the hundreds, maybe thousand of students a year who undergo unreversible mental scarring.
None of the people I know, says that the though of taking a gun to school and blowing everybody away, didn’t cross their mind a couple of times.
Tryt to turn it into a gun control issue if you want, but a disturbed student will still be able to make power bombs out of commonly available stuff.

The solutions I see are

  1. Make everybody be nice to each other.
  2. learn to live with reports of school and office rampages, and hope that it doesn’t happen to us.

I think that you see “so many” (yeah… once a year is just so much) school shootings (relatively) for two reasons:

  1. Bigger and bigger crackdowns on fighting… no way to vent frustrations.

  2. Kids are being “encouraged” (supposedly) to “grow up faster” (whatever that means… but the phrase is floating around the media like it’s hotcakes).

I would like an explanation on how a ban on guns would have stopped this kid from being picked on.

::Comes out of lurking::
This whole thing took place near my high school and a lot of the kids in my school knew kids that go there. It is a really scary thing, especially when it happens so close to me. There is a lot of verbal abuse that goes on, but I don’t think so much blame should be put on the tormenters. People always blame them, guns, violence on TV and in video games. Even though those things were possibly factors, I think that it mainly stems from mental illness. More focus should be put on identifying and treating mental illness before things like this happen. I guess I tend to do some blaming though. I believe a lot of it falls on the parents, I guess they should look for these kinds of problems. Although I must admit, I don’t make it very easy for my parents to get to know me. Blah, I’m kinda shaken by this whole thing.
::Goes back into lurking::

I’m not saying the blame does or should lie with the bullies, I’m only saying that as much harassment and bullying and “abuse” that goes on, its a wonder we don’t see more of this kind of thing no matter whose ‘fault’ it is.

In other news, 300 million Americans were not shot today.

Stuffinb:

<pours gasoline, lights match, steps back>

T-minus ten seconds

Of course these tragedies might not be so frequent, if we didn’t have so many guns in this society.

3, 2, 1…

<steps up with fire extinguisher>

Of course, these tragedies might not be so frequent if the media didn’t give every misanthropic misfit who acts out violentloy their 15 minutes.

CRIMES IN THE NATION’S SCHOOLS DECLINED IN THE 1990s
ACCORDING TO DEPARTMENTS OF JUSTICE & EDUCATION

(5k press release)

Indicators of School Crime and Safety (Executive Summary)

(223k .pdf, Adobe Acrobat required)

Actually, the main page can link you to multiple formats:

Indicators of School Crime and Safety, 2000

Well, I said earlier (before I saw the news) that blame shouldn’t go anywhere except to the person that carries out the shooting. Scratch that. On the NBC Nightly News they showed some interviews of a couple of people. One was the shooter’s “friend” and another was an adult (I can’t remember his association to the shooter). Turns out both of these guys knew about it ahead of time! This is really scary! What have we just gone through the past two years? It’s been all over the media and everywhere (not to mention common sense should tell you too) that if someone talks about brining a gun to school and it’s a kid that would have a “reason” to on top of it! C’mon people! Last I heard two students had died. I think there is some blame that needs to go to the individuals that the shooter told about his plans (talk about a cry for help!).

About the turn the other cheek thing. OK, (1, 2, 3 . . . calm, calm) now that I’m putting some thought into it. Yes, I saw some kids get tormented in school, and I realize the thought of just blocking it out doesn’t always occur to a teenager. I still think that there are enough resources that the kid should take other steps, go see a school counselor and talk about your problems if it’s that bad. I admit I don’t know the whole story with this shooting. I still don’t think violence is the best way to solve things like that, but fist fights are better than shoot outs anyday. I agree with whoever said that restrictions on fighting and such are way out of hand these days. My high school’s theory was that fist fights would lead to gun play. I think it’s the other way, fist fights let the admin. know that something is wrong and they can stop it (hopefully) before it gets worse. Instead they just call the cops and put up “Gun Free School Zone” signs :rolleyes:.

Know why the NHL decided NOT to fine hockey players for fistfighting?

If they did, the players would use their sticks; a frightening proposition.

-Soup

If this kid only shot the people tormenting him, I’d understand him MUCH better…I’d still think it was wrong and that he should go to jail, but I’d know where the feelings were coming from - I seriously contemplated killing some of my fellow students in high school myself. I’ve never been pushed to the point where I would kill indiscriminately, though.

Well, considering that California (yes, where this happened) already has the strictest gun-control laws in the nation, it surely didn’t, did it???